Eamonn

As I have posted on a couple of occasions I don't have very much respect for the person who is the Field Director in our council. In fact I am guilty of not liking him. I have tried to push me not liking him to one side, but I still due to some of the stuff that he has pulled or has tried to pull just can not respect him. As a rule we don't get in each others way and he is clever enough that if he wants something he gets someone else to do the asking. He has put his name on the list for promotion and I live in hope that someone will hire him and take him as far away as is possible. Pam, our DE for the past eight years is leaving the profession. Not entirely due to him, but he is part of the reason that she is leaving. As yet she hasn't informed the Council. Her contract states that she has to give one months notice. She informs me that she wants to go before the end of the year and will give her notice in October.So far I am the only person in the Council that knows she is going. We have worked very well together over the years and are really very close not just in Scouting but outside of Scouting. I know that our friendship will continue long after she stops working for the BSA. At this time I have no idea what is going to happen to the district when she is gone. The Council could divide the district between two other districts and save money. Even though we are the most successful district in the council. If you use meeting goals and Quality District as the benchmark. This would be my choice. We are still the smallest district in the council and this would be a significant savings. Of course this would ruffle the feathers of a good number of people and the DE's in the other two districts are nothing to write home about. One is a very new DE who I don't think is going to last long, in part due to lack of support from the Field Director. The other is a very nice young lady but her district is a mess. She has had a lot of problems in her home life and I can't see her doing a better job any time soon. Or they could hire a new DE. If they do I think that he or she is going to be someone new to the profession. If this happens I'm not sure what I should do. This new DE has the Field Director as his or her boss. I think it would be very unfair of me to have this poor DE stuck in the middle between me the District Chairman and the Field Director. He or she works for the Council and that is where the pay check will come from. So to my mind that is who he has to listen to. I in no way want to jeopardize his or her career, but when he comes to me with stuff from the Field Director I can't see me supporting it if it is like most of the stuff that he has tried to pull. Leaving the new DE with a new chairman doesn't seem to be fair. But leaving a new DE with a chairman who thinks that his boss is an idiot seems just as unfair. I am willing to step down. I am not willing to allow my values and the way I think fall in line with Field Directors. Any ideas?

Why not keep it as it is and cut off what you need as you need it? Eamonn

Hi and Welcome to the forums. Cub Scouts packs are part of some other organization. It might be a church, a VFW, or Some other Community organization. We call them the Chartered Partner or the Chartered Organization. This organization is responsible for the selection of the Leaders in the Cub Scout Pack. All packs should have someone on their Pack Committee that acts as the go between from the pack to the chartered organization. He or she is the Chartered Organization Representative. If there is someone who is acting the way this person is I would hope that the pack committee would hold a meeting with the Charter Rep. In attendance and make sure that he or she knows and understands the problem. I would ask him or her to talk with the Head of the organization and send a letter informing the trouble maker that his services were no longer required. While it would be a little out of the ordinary the Scout Executive from your Council does have the right to take away a persons membership for a good reason. I think anyone swearing in front of Cub Scouts might be a good reason. But that is up to the Scout Executive. I would go to the Chartered Organization. Eamonn

As for Liberals using this horrible story to bash Bush. Wasn't Bush the Leader that led us into Iraq to get rid of the weapons of mass destruction ? When there were no weapons to be found wasn't it Bush who pointed the finger at Saddam and the torture going on in the jails of Iraq? Eamonn

FOG I know that I may be out of line, but somehow I can't see you not mentioning something to these Lads. As I have posted in the past, I am not for Merit Badge Mills or Eagle Scout Factories. I do however think that if a Lad is covering the material that is part of the Merit Badge that us old people telling him so is supporting him. As for the "Apologist Parents" I fail to see why they should have to be apologizing for anything. The Merit Badge or Rank Advancement is down to the Scout. Sure the parent can guide and support but that's as far as it goes. Eamonn

Reading and Re-reading your posting the "Lull" time doesn't seem to be very long. Not knowing what other activities the Lads in your troop are involved in I can't say that they are busy doing other stuff. I do know that the track team and the soccer team along with school plays and chorus keep my 15 year old busy especially when you add in homework and time spend doing non- scouting activities. Bottom line is that kids are busy. At times I have a hard time remembering that while Scouts and Scouting are a very large part of my life, that just because he is my son doesn't mean it has to be a large part of his. At present he is far more involved with the OA then he is with his advancement. He is active with the troop and is the SPL. Which of course brings up the subject of it being his advancement. I am 100% for the goal of First Class within about a year. But after that advancement is up to the individual. Of course a troop that has planned programs and offers the Scouts opportunities to try new and exciting activities will light the spark that will lead to or help lead to the Scout wanting too find out more and pursue the merit badge and in some cases the troop program may in it self cover all or parts of a merit badge. We as adults in the program are here to serve our Scouts, we do so by being here to help and support them. If you feel that the troop that you are in is doing this and the Scouts are aware that Advancement is an individual thing. I wouldn't worry about it. Eamonn

As a person who puts my socks on one at a time, I find the photos coming out of Iraq shocking. I find them shocking not because some of the guards are English or American, not because I'm English and not because in the eyes of many that I'm some sort of pinko left wing liberal. There is a lot of things in the newspapers and on the TV that shocks me. Pictures of beaten and abused children, stories of people starving and the list goes on. I suppose that in my shock that I want to appoint blame and point the finger. The parents beat a child and the finger gets pointed at Child Services, the people are starving and the oil companies are exploiting the third world. We or at least I'm getting good at pointing the finger. As yet I haven't read all the details of how or why things got so out of hand in these Iraq jails.I do know that we the people of both England and America find nothing brave or noble in the actions of what I think were a few. George W. is not one of my favorite people but the last time I looked he was/is a right wing Republican. Tony Blair is OK in my book but the last time I looked he was the leader of the left wing Labour Party. What has happened has nothing to do with left or right wing politics. It is the actions of a few. I wasn't there, I have no idea if these few acted out of hate, frustration or too many pints of beer. Sure it happened on someones watch, sure the supervision of those who acted this way needs to be looked at. Still the very fact that we are shocked says a lot. Eamonn

Our Council holds two Council Dinners, one for the North end of the Council and one for the South end. I normally attend the South dinner, held at Nemocolin Woodlands Resort. A really nice place with good food. The dinner is $175.00 a plate or $500.00 if you want to go to meet the guest speaker and nibble on some fruit and cheese. There is a cash bar and the cost of a beer is out of sight $6.25 !! Of course at these prices no one drinks that much. The dinner is attended by adults who support the council and it is rare to see anyone in uniform. A few years back the then Council President thought it would be nice to have a few Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts present the colors, a year or so later the Scouts were involved giving everyone the thank you gift, normally a mug or a pin of some sort. Due to the high cost of meals the Scouts don't stay for the meal and are taken somewhere for pizza. I think this is terrible. While it might be nice to see these young smiling faces, they are there as window dressing. This year when the Scout Exec. Found that one little Lad was in a wheel chair he was over the moon. I don't see what any young Lad gains by attending. Most of the Scouts know a good many of the adults at the dinner and a good many of the adults have a drink in hand. The boys are around before the dinner and many of us do have drinks on the table when the gifts are delivered. While I enjoy a drink and don't pass judgment on those who don't drink. I really think that this is a bad example for us to be setting. Eamonn

I still am unable to get into the OA section, but I think the fault is all mine. I am aware that Mike Walton has a very good Wood Badge Forum but I spend more time here then there. I don't know how it could work as far as getting in but I feel sure that there must be some way. We do seem to have a lot of people in the forum that have been or are going to Staff a course. Eamonn

Well my dear Aggie isn't it nice that we see eye to eye. Of course right as we might /may be we aren't those with the final word. Eamonn

While I can see how this might be seen as a project that doesn't fit under one of the headings. But I wonder what if that would change depending on who done the asking? Let us say that the local church asked for the rail for these elderly people ? Does that change things? Eamonn

Twocubdad I suppose it all comes down to picking your battles. In my opinion being the CO is the CO you can ask to have the rule changed. However if they dig their heels in there is no way of winning. Needless to say if I was this Lady I don't think that I would want any part of this CO going on the details that we have been given here. Eamonn

Twocubdad I don't really understand your question. The point that I was trying to make was; If I was the Executive Officer and I had a rule that people were breaking I would ask them to either follow the rule or take a hike. In this case the CO has made a ruling and it seems to me what they want and don't want is very clear add to this the fact that the CO is well with in their rights to make the ruling. Trying to find loop holes to get around the ruling is not the way to deal with it. If the rule is wrong you can ask that it be changed, obey it or move on. I in this case don't like the rule and would ask to have it changed if the CO refused I would pack up my tent and see if another unit needed my services. Sure I would use whatever material that was available to make my argument. I wouldn't try to use a loop hole to sneak around what seems like a very clear ruling. Yes there have been times when I have put my foot down only to find that someone has used my words to bite me in the tail. Heck dealing with kids of Scout age you know before you start that if there is a tiny loop hole they are going to find it and use it. But we are talking about adults. Eamonn

I have read "Two Lives Of A Hero" and visit the Green Bar Bill web site from time to time. I have also read what Terry has written in the site dedication. Eamonn

Open To Observation? We could fill at least six or seven pages debating what "Open To Observation." means. At the National Jamboree parents and visitors are welcome to visit, but are asked to leave by a certain time. Is the BSA guilty of breaking their own rule? While I don't agree with the Chartering Organizations rule. It is the rule. If I were the Executive Officer of the Chartered Organization and I found out that people were playing silly games to get around my ruling I would have no alternative but to ask them to leave the unit. Being as I am the head of the Chartered Organization I would be well within my rights. Eamonn

Not being a local William Hillcourt and his works were new to me. Having read some / a lot of what he wrote I really like it and think that his take on Scouting and the Patrol Method are about the best. I was wondering is there a biography of him in print? Some of the stories that I have heard lead me to believe that he was a real character. Eamonn

I can't get into the OA section, but then again my spelling could be off!! As of last summer, we were still tapping. From where I was standing it did look like those on the tap out team used a little more energy on the lads that they knew!! Eamonn

I'm in the "Butt Out" Camp. We adults never know what deals the Scouts are making. The difference here is that you heard what was said. None of us in the forum know Billy. But I think that there are those of us who have seen Scouts that were not rising stars really shine when given a position of responsibility. Some Lads thrive on the extra attention and training that Patrol Leaders receive. Many years ago we had a Lad who was a real tough nut. The kind of Lad that was always in hot water.At that time skinheads were in and this Lad had all the gear. I think he only joined the troop so that he could play in the District Five A Side Soccer competition. He was an outstanding soccer player. Somehow, someway he got voted in as a Patrol Leader. He was great a natural born leader with a great imagination and sense of fun. The great thing about Scouting is that no one is left sitting on the bench. That is true when it comes to leadership, we ought to try and give every lad the opportunity to lead. Eamonn

Laurie If Fun is the Fuel of Scouting and you add a Rock do you have Rocket Fuel? Sounds like you all had a great time. Eamonn PS I hope the little Lads leg is 100%.

maybe we haven't been called to the Bar? Or do are we waiting for silk? Eamonn

Why is it that even when the subject is food in Issues and Politics, that I can't agree? Eamonn

We are sending two troops and even though the Jamboree site is only a hop, skip and a jump down the road the fee is $895.00. A long way off what your Lads have to come up with. Both troops are full and we have a waiting list. Everyone, even the Lads on the waiting list have made the first payment and are following a payment plan. Our Council by the sound of it would fit in one or two of your Districts. Last time and again this time the Jamboree Committee has offered Fund Raising opportunities to those that want them. We have sold pies in a couple of sales and frozen pizza kits. The profit on each pie was $1.25. Which I didn't think was worth the effort, but they sold for only $6.00 each. The pizza kits sold for $15.00 a kit with three pizzas in the kit and the profit was a little over $5.00. Even as small as we are we had the pies and the pizzas delivered to two locations. We have a North Troop and their stuff went to the Service Center and a South Troop and their stuff comes to my house. My ever loving Her Who Must Be Obeyed coordinates all the sales for both troops. She informs everyone when the pick up time will be. Normally a two or three hour window. Most times the stuff comes in on a Saturday. The service center closes at noon and Her That Must Be Obeyed makes it very clear that she has to deliver the stuff that our son has sold and will not be home after the time stated. Maybe you could find a vendor who would deliver to different locations ? Some of the parents in the South Troop have said that they are unhappy selling food to their friends and relations. So we are looking at other items we might sell. The bad news is that everyone is selling to raise money for their organization. I suggested Christmas wreaths and two of the high schools sell them. The same thing with Coupon cards, the bands sell them. We are now looking at First Aid kits and bulbs that you plant. We do by the way ask that all Fund Raising is pre-paid, money with the order. I don't want to be running around two counties - Even small ones, chasing up money owed. Eamonn

One really good thing about these forums is that at times the little gray cells get a work out. It happened the other day in a posting about money being donated for specific groups and it's happening again with the 30 half-hearted Lads and the 15 Lads that are committed to the program. As a rule I tend to go along with most of the stuff that KS posts in these forums and I have saved a few of his postings because I thought they were outstanding. While we have never met I feel certain that he sets the example to the Scouts in the Troop that he serves in both commitment and in proper uniforming. I think that I would enjoy meeting with him and discussing the methods of Scouting as there are a few little things that we don't see eye to eye on. Not that either of us are wrong, we just don't, maybe understand exactly where the other is coming from.(In my opinion.) Needless to say it is far easier and a lot more rewarding to be the Leader of a group of people who have commitment. So I agree with that. I'm just not sure about what happens to the Lads that as yet are not committed? Do we just let them go? We sure as heck are not fulfilling the mission of Scouting if we let them go. But who wants a troop full of half-hearted Scouts? And if half the troop is made up with half-hearted Scouts will they pull the other Lads down? Boy there is a lot of unanswered questions. To add to them: Is Scouting for every boy? By the number of Lads that don't join it would seem obvious that not every boy is for Scouting. Do Scoutmasters get the troop they deserve? Eamonn

I again would refer to the Eagle Project Workbook. I see that it says Religious Institution, School or your community.I think that the project would fall under the community heading. As for Leadership, I don't know one end of a hammer from the other. I wonder what style of Leadership the Lad would need to use to get a ramp out of me? We have an advancement chair in our council who is big on hours for Eagle projects. Last time we met he was going on and on about 100 hours. I was busy thanking my lucky stars that he wasn't in our district. In my book the leadership shown is the biggie, not the hours. Netman, check with your district and good luck. Eamonn

Hi Bill, Welcome to the forums. You might want to see what your Chartering Organization feels about un-trained leaders, and see how the pack committee feels. I agree with Neil that training needs to be sold. Depending on what policy's are in place by the chartering organization. If they say that all leaders have to be trained. That's it they are the boss. It could be that they don't have a policy. In which case the pack committee will have to decide what their feelings are and decide if a leader who refuses to attend training is allowed to continue in the pack. They would make sure that the COR runs this past the chartering organization and that everyone is on the same page. It could be that the chartering organization doesn't want someone going around town saying that they were "Fired" By the organization. You would be over stepping the mark to ask this leader to step aside without the backing of the Pack Committee and if possible the backing of the chartering organization or at least the COR. While the YP training is a must, to the best of my knowledge the BSA doesn't have anything that makes the other training mandatory. There are some Councils that are demanding that all leaders take training. You might do well to talk with your unit commissioner about this problem and ask him or her to discuss with you the role of the Cubmaster. You really don't want to get caught up in the removal of adult leaders. In most cases in Scouting when it and if it comes down to asking someone to leave, the person doing the asking should be the person who signed the Adult Leader Application. I am 100% for training and trained leaders, but unless there is a policy in place, you as the Cubmaster can't start making up your own rules. Hope this helps. Eamonn