Eagledad

>>Sure didn't mean to sound like that...and if I did, I apologize. Rarely would I purposely attempt to come across that way. But if I did, I'd let you know without you having to guess.....:-)

>>Perhaps I'm just out of step with the 'new' definitions that society attaches to wrods here and there. But that's alright with me. I kinda like the old ones.

>>Furthermore, it appears that the gift of the candy bar was conditional i.e., it was a true bribe. >To make matters worse, most 12 year-olds do not recognize the real value of their vote. Many would willingly accept the short-term gratification of a candy bar and suffer the long-term consequences of selecting the wrong candidate.

>>When problems arise you will find more success by stepping toward the recommended scouting methods not by stepping further away.

>>I could start with 'bribery', Barry.

>>Well, you've recognized that the fault(s) lie in more than one place. But these are just kids we're dealing with here, and they're subject to that kind of thing. That's why we do what we do as leaders to help instill values that might eliminate the need to discuss these things with them as they grow.

>>The quiet, polite, non-assuming boys get advanced quickly with no regard to actual leadership. One quiet 12 yr old boy used his position of Troop Bugler to advance to Life, even though he never bugled at anything! The more rambunctious, out-going, in the middle of everything boys are told they have to wait.

Hi Mainescouter I would love to visit Maine. >>Your statement about leadership maturity not being a limitation toward rank and advancement... what is that based on?

Good day all >>The BSA believes that leadership is a learned skill and not a residual characteristic of maturity.> Also how would you objectively measure maturity and make it an equal measurement throughout a national program? The best measurement of maturity in a scout is scout spirit, his ability to live by the values of the Oath and Law.

>>What ever medication you are taking it's either not enough or way too much. Absurd comments like that do nothing to further the discussion or to develop a better understanding of the scouting methods.

Good morning MaineScouter Isn't this forum a great place to camp or what? I guess I will be the devil in the discussion though. I hate that! But while what you describe first comes of as Egos out of control, I get more of the feeling that your troop is being run with good intension guided by ignorance. Ignorance is a lot easier to change than the self-serving desire to be Caesar. It's true that the relationship between the CC, SM and Council President is wrong, not to mention just plain dangerous for all. But, this just might be a scouting family with the passion of Baden Powell looking t

Found this in a history of BSA ranks. ((1911 Eagle Requirements The BSA adds three higher ranks for earning merit badges beyond First Class: Life, Star, and Eagle (Star was switched before Life in 1924, apparently because the five points of the Star could symbolize the five merit badges required for the rank))). Hope this helps. Strange question to hold up a scout though. That is one tough troop. Barry

The last thing I tell my students at SM Specific is I don't think we are standing in this particular place at this moment by accident. We have purpose and we've been queued in a direction to make a difference. Your courage has that purpose and who knows how many of us are better from it? Who knows how many of our sons will be become better men from it? Thanks dsteel. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>It's nice to have old timers tell you their opinion (especially when it agrees with yours).

>>It's a valuable undertaking for those who teach and guide. It can insure that the means and methods we use are, indeed, getting the message through to the boys.

>>Just letting them plan it has gotten the last three trips cancelled.

Good Morning All Laura and Hops_scout, I say this with the deepest respect from my heart, if you really believe this is just boys being boys, then you have set your expectations way to low. Have you never seen an adult election where the most popular person was elected because none of the candidates stood out otherwise? These kinds of elections happen when the people voting don't see a difference in the choices. In the troop, that generally that means the adults have been doing too much of the work and not allowing the scouts to see what happens when a bad leader takes run things.

Hi River2K I agree with FScouter that scoutmastering will improve your weaker skills and enhance your strong ones. Here are a few things to ask. What is the one thing you want every boy to gain from your leadership? What are your goals? What do you want to change? Everyone is different and has something they want to add or take away to make the program better. If not, then maybe your not motivated enough to be my son's role model. Relize that 50% of your job is working with and developing adults. That will be a challeng on your quiet side and your patience. Don't take

>>do you have ideas of other questions that I might use to help draw him out and get him to think?

>>Bottom line is that you are right, I should have done better, but I didn't know how and failed (though it seemed I did ok at the time) with this particular boy.

>>Many spouses have asked me for a definintion of "overly active." Any suggestions?

>>Telling is rarely leading and it rarely has lasting effects. Scouting teaches 4 styles of leadership. Many adults seem to only use one.

>>If children don't need adult guidance, again I ask why adult leaders are needed, >A simple solution to this, dear boy, is that you do it your way, and I do it mine.

>>I don't hardly hold with this apparent modernistic liberal trend of allowing children to be in complete control of everything they do.

>>A grown man is generally going to carry more weight with a boy than another boy. >But, to use our current example, if the SPL takes 30 minutes to get the boys to be quiet so the SM can talk, he isn't doing his job. >Also, in such a situation the SM can give a talk to the rest of the troop regarding respect for the SPL.