Eagledad

>>The current SPL is a JLTC staff member and so far it has not interferred in his troop participation in the least>I said I would not direct a scout to Venturing unless he wasn't getting what he needed from the troop program.>Why is everyone so set on taking the older scouts away from troops that are meetingtheir high adventure needs? Now do you see why so many scout leaders see the Venturing program as "stealing" membership.

>>Venturing is a fine program but it needs to find its own membership. If it cannot survive without taking membership from troops then it is either being done incorrectly>JLTC is a one week training course whose purpose is develop the scout and send him back to the troop to lead. If that was the extend of the Venturing committment I would have no proble.>None of those other organizations you mention are duplicating the program of the Venture Patrol

>>How do Venture Patrols have a similar problem? They do not draw away from troop membership, They are a patrol.>every leader in scouting was NEW at some point. You cannot rely on the current crop of leaders to lead scouting forever. You must constantly be bringing in new adults at all levels. >He would tell you that an older scout program is about understand the maturity of young adults Any level of scouting depends on that.>So if a troop leader understands that and delivers the program accordingly there is no need for a Boy Scout to NEED Venturing until he turns 18, because his troop, in understanding his needs, would be delivering a program to meet them.

>>I like the Venturing Program, but local Venturing organizers are its worst enemy, they continue to try and rely on current leaders and current members rather than injecting new bodies and minds into the new program.

>>And while you think I am wrong neither the BSA or I do, so lets just say I see it differently than you.

>>When a new scout joins the troop I presume he is here until he turns 18. I fhe has to look elsewhere for adventure and personal growth then we are not doing our job. So far so good.

This is a strange conversation. I never would have thought that you would be offened by scouts particpating in multiple programs. It's not a matter of what, it's a matter of how much. For that matter, what does OA offer that a troop can't. Would it be OK if one of your scout wanted to be on the JLTC team? I was in a Scuba Post, I got to scuba every month of the year if I wanted. Sure, I guess a troop could do that, but is that realistic? A person can't box in the BSA Mission Statement to just one unit at a time. The goal of the program is much bigger than that. Scouts each have their own individual dreams and goals. If your troop is good, they've learn to think and act outside the norm. The BSA gives us the tools so scouts can seak their dreams and find their place in the world. It's not insult of your program if the scout wants to extend his experiance. It's complement that he wants to stay with yours. Hope this helps. Got to go. Hey all have a great weekend. Barry

>>But Barry a Venture patrol can do the very same thing.

Hi All >>I see no advantage to dual registering Boys Scouts into Venturing. Venturing is a separate program, separate unit.

Good Morning All >>Eagledad , Did you have any sort of a orientation at the get go? If so when?

We went from a 30% retention to 80% when I came to the realization that Tigers a parent program, not boys. If you keep the parents happy, they will stay. What our pack did to make it fun and easy for the parents is ask them to only do two activities a month. A Pack activity can count as one if they want, but the other has to be lead by a parent. We as one family to take charge for only one month. We didn't them to volunteer for anything during their first year because we wanted them to watch a fun program. What this did was allow the parents to pick and choose the place and times to meet. They didn't feel over committed because they see themselves responsible for onlt two activities. They got to know each other well because they had to call each other for information. It's a very simple program, but we shared a school with another pack, and when the parents compared programs, we had no trouble recuiting. And a year later, we had at least 80% come back. It was a simple plan and it worked. Barry

>>In the last three elections, the ASPL ran unopposed. We have been trying to get the guys to understand that that doesn't necesarily allow for the strongest SPL

>>What would happen if we asked the Scout if he thought that he had met the requirement and why he thought that he had?

>>Since then, he's had a couple of minor issues. I've pointed them out immediately, and explained that they were examples of his behavior problems.

I'm on staff for our Spring Course in April. Barry

Hi All I thought I'd check where I heard the Hunting MB rumor. It turns out they are testing it. Here is a bit of a quote to what it's all about. """There is no shooting of animals involved in earning this MB. Its primary purpose is history and background of hunting, and the benefits of hunting. The scout must earn the shooting MB and conservation MB. He must pass a hunter safety course. The MB teaches why there are hunting seasons, why some animals become extinct, and why others are exploding in population.""" Doesn't resolve the camo thing, but answers other questions. On OGE's responces, I thought Venture Scouts could still work on MBs. Maybe you meant they don't work MBs as a crew? Have a great Scouting day. Barry

Hi All While I have not seen it yet, I understand there is a new Hunting MB. I don't know if that is restricted to Venture. Barry

Hi All, Go Okla. State You didn't say why troop elections aren't working, but I found most troops that struggle with elections havn't matured to a boy run program yet. If the performance of the troop doesn't change much between a bad performing SPL or good SPL, then likely the scouts don't really think it matters. I've learned that rank or age isn't a great requirement for leadership requirments because they don't really insure a the scout is qualified. And if you have that mature scout who isn't into advancement (been there), you cheat him from an oppertuity of growth. Our troop doesn't have requirements, but we do like to see PL, Troop Quartermaster and ASPL experience. Mostly because in our troop each position teaches leadership skills unique to each position. But not all our SPLs had all those experiences. The average age of our SPL is 15 and a half. Barry

Great Oklahoma Day all. >>I would tell him den campouts are against BSA policy, but let's see what we can do to make the outing happen and stay within the policy.

>>They spent almost an hour trying to deal with these guys themselves, and decided that the situation would be dealt with by assigning these guys K.P. for the rest of the weekend. The SPL did not tell any adults about this until late Saturday night.

Happy Scouting All >>My whole goal with that post was to maybe, possibly turn the tide of the discussion more toward solutions rather than pointing fingers or beating chests.

Happy Scouting All >>I personally thought being a member of OA was a more dignified position.

Good Scouting All Take your hat to a hat store and have them steam it. Not sure where you are from, but there a several here in Oklahoma City. Those guys are really good at fitting a stiff hat. Barry

Hi all I have found what you guys are saying is true when the scouts aren't guided in their goals and responsibilities as scouts in the troop. Staff Patrols and Senior Patrols are not the problem. Not that you will have a perfect world otherwise, but scouts tend to get lazy about their place in the troop when they aren't reminded who they are or held accountible to their responsbilities. I strongly agree with VenturescoutNY that older scouts hang around when the program is challenging. Problem is most adults don't know what challenging is for older scouts. I once polled our older scouts on what they felt would make the program more exciting for them personally. Only a third said they wanted more high adventure. Yet, most adults look to high adventure as the cure to older scout problems. Scouts at all ages want to be challenged both mentally and physically for their age and maturity. We adults confuse older scouts as older boys, when in reality older scouts are young men. I find the reason older scouts don't want to hang around younger scouts is because adults treat the maturity of older scouts the same as the maturity of the younger scouts. And we might send an older scout off to go teach the new NSP first class knots, but we tell them step by step how to do it, which translates to the older scout as babysitting. Next time ask the older scouts to design a fun program where the new scouts learn their knots. Instead of giving them what appears to be busy work, you now have given them your trust and responsbility for an important part of the troop program. Set expectations in all your scouts that we are all role models. Role models have the responsibility to teach and live by the scout oath and law. Treat your older scouts as young men and allow them some room to be adults. Our Troop is mature enough now that we have 18 and 19 year old scouts going on trips as adults. In reality, there isnt much difference in the way they perform because our older scouts pretty much run the troop, but they love the idea of officially being and adult. Good subject. Barry

>>I will tell you that I wonder how much value one person swimming against the tide can be.