Eagledad

I certanly understand the the excitment of scouts who staff NYLTs. When I was the Council JLT Chairman (In Beaver's Council by the way) we were developing what was then our council leadership development (JLTC) ladder that funtioned as one of the stepping stones in the whole BSA Junior Leadership Development Program. The steps went something like this: 1. Den Chief Training DCT First Year Scouts 2. Unit Leadership development experience 11 thru 14 years old 3. JLTC Senior Leadership Level Training (Minimum age 14) 4. JLTC Staff Unit JASM Development Training 5. NJLIC at Philmont Training for JLTC Youth Course Directors The objective was to encourage a specific purpose for each step of leadership development. We were trying to train the Scoutmaster how each step worked so that they could continually push their scouts to another level as they matured with experience. Staffing the Council JLT course is almost perfect for JASM development because the youth staff is trained to observe and teach the scouts leadership skills. It is also a great place to learn how to mentor or coach. Something that takes time and practice when the adults let their scouts do it. The ladder allowed us a way to present the Scoutmasters wiht expectations of what to do with their Scout when the course was done. We clearly advertised to each SM that any scout who graduated from JLTC should plan, teach and lead ALL Troop JLT courses. We advertised that any Scout who staffed a JLTC course had the level of training to be a JASM. And we even specified the skills they should be allowed to perform in the troop. One of the reason Scoutmasters struggle with council JLT training is because they dont know what the scout learned. So they dont know where to let the scout lead. We required a unit adult to attend the last four hours of the JLTC course so we could instruct them on the very thing. If the unit couldnt commit an adult to the training, their scout couldnt participate because it was a waste of time. As far as I know, we never had a single troop decline because of that. In fact, some troops actually like the adult training part so much; they sent more adults to the next JLTC even if they didnt have a scout in the course. The last thing we did was have the adult and the scout sit down together. There they created a plan to how the scout was going to use his new skills for reaching his goals that he wrote during the week. I know our Council doesnt run the course like that anymore. But, I can certainly understand why scouts who staff these courses are different when the come back, and want to repeat the experience several times. I would like to add, once a scout has staffed two council courses, he needs to go to Philmont. Scouts who came back from Philmont were outstanding in every way. That is why they became Course Directors in our council. Good stuff. Barry

>>Barry, don't tell me you think that the twin cities police are not likewise spending large amounts of money in preparation for the Republican convention. Any big gathering attracts its share of shouting idiots. Balancing 1st amendment rights against public oder has never been an easy task but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that either party's followers (or detractors) are, as a group, more well-mannered than the other.

>> If you believe you are right, sometimes you have to keep shouting from the rooftops even if everyone ignores you.

>> You say it's a sin. I just don't see the logic there.

>>Barry, a BOR gains the fact that a Scout has respect and cares about the wishes of the BOR when he wears his uniform (if requested) and shows disrespect and a cavalier attitude if he does not (or memory loss, or poverty, or .. - the BOR can usually figure out which).

Ignoring all the "shoulds", shall dos and what we want to dos, Why should a scout wear the uniform to a BOR? In your minds, what does the board members gain from it and what does the scout gain? Barry

>>Barry, I earned my beads the same way you probably did, and my "normal" son is a project and a couple MB's away from his Eagle. So, to assume I don't understand the way the program works in practice is snipe droppings...

>>There's no reason you can't find someone willing to make a similar commitment in Scouting.

>> When it comes to challenged kids, I no longer see scouting as inclusive as the organization thinks it is.

>>So let's not lie to kids and parents for the sake of some long past tradition. If the child has a need, hand the scout a cell phone and let him talk to his parents.

We used to plan a yearly agenda of one Pack meeting and one Pack outing each month. Example of our typical yearly pack outing agenda was: Sept- Pack Campfire October - Roller Skate rink November - Food Drive December - Caroling January - Science Museum Lockin February - Blue and Gold March - Pinewood Derby April - Pack Camp out May - Ice cream Feast June - Cubmoble races (No Pack meeting) July - Picnic (No Pack meeting) August Swimming (No Pack meeting) We planned an outing every mont h to help the ease the Den Leader Program. When I was at my best, the Pack meeting generally went 55 minutes of nonstop laughing, singing, yelling, and showing off. That was for a pack of 100 scouts. Got to go start the grill. Barry

I have to agree about changing up your meetings a little. Some troops wear troop t-shirts in the summer. Different meeting places is a great idea. Keep the troop meeting to prep for the campouts. AND, plan fun campouts. Lets all throw out a few theme ideas. Triathlon campout where the troop has to pull up stakes in the morning and bike, hike and canoe to another campsite several miles away. Think about the training for meetings like preparing the bikes and taking a few small bike trips. Or, canoing at a local lake to practice strokes and loading gear. A troop night camporee. Get the troop ready to competetions at night after the campfire until early early in the morning. How about a night backpacking trip. Fishing. Spend a few troop meetings learning how to fly fish or make your own bait. This is a start, what about others? Oh I love this scouting stuff. BArry But, lets thi

>>Let me just say that this is "wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong..." Any Scout, at any time, can ask the Scoutmaster (directly) for a Scoutmaster Conference - for rank, or any other purpose. A Scout Troop is not a corporate office, where the "lower ranks" have to go through a chain of command to speak with the "guy at the top" (which, BTW, in a Scout Troop isn't an adult - it's the SPL).

>>Well, I disagree

Great Post Gunny. A unit learns a lot about performance accountability when they have retarded or handicap scouts in the unit. How to apply equal accountability with unequal abilities quickly challenges adults with equal expectations of all scouts. Scouting is about growth and each boy grows differently. Scouts should be mentored as individuals. Barry

>> Well eagledad, back in November you seemed to be arguing against relative morality as just being whoever has the biggest stick, while absolute, unchangable "religious" morality was the way to go...

>>When something that should be an absolute morality becomes a situational morality, that is the point where society loses its moral compass.

>>Of course we executed those guys for war crimes when they did it. Its when our officials attempt to justify this immoral behavior is when I think we've lost our moral compass.

>>"Stosh, I see your point in that its hard to teach servant leadership to scouts who don't care. But that is not a good reason to throw your hands up and not teach it at all." And where did I indicate that?>Ever notice that if the PL doesn't call his patrol, the adult will cover and make the calls at the last minute? This is call enabling, not teaching.

>>I do agree that we have lost our moral compass. We torture our war prisoners and think nothing of it.

>>do think if left to the scouts to select their patrols most would be similar in age and interests. It seems adult leaders when deciding who should be in patrols that tend to mix the ages. When I chose my friends as a boy they tended to be about my age and did things I liked to do. Adults tend to try and make patrols "look even", and that is not what patrols are about.

I agree as a society we are loosing the moral compass. I think we have been for a long time. Until the 1940s, many if not most families had a bible laying around because it was an easy common book to own. Most folks before that time actually learn to read using the bible. It didn't mater is you beleived in God or not, you learned a moral direction based from one main source. That gave society as a whole a basic moral direction that most everyone agreed. We don't have that common source today for moral guidence. There is not one basic direction that society as a whole can point and say that is the right thing to do. Barry

>>I still cannot tell if you support that process or not. Your troop has unwritten guidlines, which pretty much means you have none. The BSA has written guidelines that are inter-related with other elements of the program. Which do you suggest for gwd to do?

>>Personally, I look forward to that week away from the world. A week to get away from ringing cell phones, clacking keyboards, and the glare of computer screens and watch the glare of the sun coming up. I look forward to a week of listening to bird songs in the morning and sounds of boys having a good time during the day, the lapping of water in the creeks, streams and lakes, and the ever-present tree frogs at night.

>>I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.I am more than happy to explain how and why we I have done things in relationship to the scouting program. But you should be courteous enough to ask what it is I do, and ask what I think, rather than consistently "tell" me. Because you constantly misprepresent me, and that is a very unfair way to discuss a topic?>"As far as the topic of THIS thread goes. Do you agree that according to the BSA program...The PLC determines the qualifications for being an SPL and that the youth elect him, and the SPL slects all other youth ledership posions at the troop level. And that the Patrol determoines the PL requirements and elects the patrol leader, then the patrol leader selects all other patrol positions. And if you do agree then would you recommend to gwd-scouter to use that method?