Eagledad

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Yes, all boys can be boy scouts provided they are paired with the troop. An extreme example I off the top of my head is a quadriplegic Eagle in our council. There are very few troops that could give him a quality scouting program, but there is at least one. Barry

What is considered successful? Of the top four largest troops in our district, Troop A with 150 scouts is totally adult run with a lot of activities to keep the scouts busy. Not much boy run, but a busy schedule. Troop B with a 120 scouts is totally a MB Mill with a ho hum monthly outdoors program, but a very energized (and expensive) summer program. Troop C with 85 scouts is very boy run with a very active outdoor program and high adventure program. Troop D with 60 scouts has a good outdoor program but almost no boy run. I hate to disagree with Eagle92 because I want to agree with him so bad, but boy run is not a prominent factor for a successful program. I dont think it is even in the top three. At least if we are looking at numbers as an indicator of success. If we are looking at numbers as the indicator of success, my observations is Good Recruiting is the top item for a successful troop. Troop B above to me has one of the most boring troop programs Ive observed in our district, but they have the best recruiting program of any troop in the state. Also, they loose at least half of their new scouts every year, but they recruit a lot of scouts. Troop D started with 12 Webelos and was at 60 scout in two years. The scoutmaster< who admits he doesn't know what he is doing, is in marketing and knows how to recruit. Now I will say this about boy run, my observation is that the REAL boy run programs have the most active OLDER scout programs. Ive said a few times here that the best indicator of over all troop troop can be seen in older scout part of the program. Three of the four examples above loose 90% or more of their scouts by age 14. Barry

Who develops the Patrol Leader in a troop without an SPL? Barry

Our scouts knew that I wanted them to pursue at least two terms of PL before they moved toward a troop office. I actually wanted more terms but most scouts who serve two are ambitious and time is short from their perspective. I don't like Patrol Leaders before the age 13 and I really preferred 14. Our guys work pretty hard and 13 year olds just aren't mature enough for that responsibility, except for the rare natural leaders and even they don't grow much from their experience until after puberty. There is an unwritten expectation that our troop had of officer positions scouts are expected to experience before they run for SPL. Most go that route, a couple of the good ones may skip one of the positions. But they were good enough to make up for the skills of the position they skipped. As for the "boy run" "boy led", I guess we all have our personal definitions and expect everyone to accept then as written in stone for all to read. But I have always use the "boy run" term as well because each scout has the opportunity to define himself in the troop and make the program better. A troop won't function well unless all the boys buy into the boy run concept. I am not a fan of the SM picking the leaders because frankly, there are not that many adults who can do it right. Talk about favorites and popularity. I also think the scouts need a system that they can rely on to change the course of leadership themselves. Waiting for the SM to pick his next favorite can be very frustrating for those not happy with the present favorite. Some folks keep referring to elections as popularity contest. Well I guess, buy our guys work very hard and only the scouts willing to work that hard run for the position. I think that is how the cream is really supposed to rise to the top. It works most of the time. I said all along and to expecially Kudu that leading a troop is an individual thing no matter what youth program we are in. The good scout leaders do good, the bad ones don't. But the vast majority of them grow to get better and that is what a program must count on to survive. I know this was an issue with Badon Powell, I have a book on his write ups of adults. Strikingly, he was dealing with the same adult problems back then as we discuss today. Human behavior does not change. I can't imagine a troop without an SPL, but that is OK by me because we were a very good boy run program with a very good boy run reputation. But its that custom tailoring thing that makes it work so well for all the good troops. I've met a lot of really good boy run troops, none were exactly like ours. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

My style of Scoutmastering was training the Scouts to run the troop the same as they would if the adults didn't show up. In that vision, the SPL was being trained the scoutmaster's responsibilities. What does the scoutmaster do in your troop? That is what the SPL would be doing if the adults didn't show up. Barry

>>I am not sure I understand what "fake leadership" is

>>Or, maybe we should just strike that one from the books.

>>I concede the point that my son did not perform his POR very well, but being fired just short of six months? without a "performance review" and corrective action plan?

Never say no to a scout, there is an opportunity here. The fastest way to get a boy to think and behave like a man is finding exercises where he makes mature decisions and practices mature skills in activities that interest him. Those who have been to Philmont were likely introduced to hatchet throwing. Hatchet throwing is the skill of throwing hatchets at a target on a large wooden log. Hatchets and throwing sharp objects is something that intrigues most young males, so this activities draws scout like a fly on honey. Each person who wanted to participate had to learn the skills of throwing the hatchet and proper safety to be in the area. I dont know much about these knives, but the boys are intrigued by them and if they are legal, we can use their focused interest to our advantage to teach safety and proper use of knives. If limits have to be set like not using them for activities for which they arent safely designed like in a woods, that is a great place to learn the right tool for the right job. They also need to learn and understand to not let the image of of a certain tool like that knife put them in situations that will cause others to feel uncomfortable. This is an opportunity for the scout to practice putting the needs or concerns of other before themself. A wonderful life lesson. It is important that we teach our youth how to react to the unknown with caution, not Fear. Caution is not the same as fear. Fear generally stops growth where as caution encourages it. Barry

>>One year at camp, I taught Lifesaving MB and I was called a few unScoutlike names by both youth and adults b/c #1 I wanted the MB skills to be mastered before signing off,

>>Took 20 years to become melanoma.

>>I also hear that the staff barracks have AC and the ticks are really bad. Already issues with dehydration, so tell all your Scouts to start drinking water NOW and don't wait until they arrive Monday.

>>That means marching in parades, doing regular service projects, serving as color guard for Little League opening day ceremonies, volunteering to lead tours at the local nature center, putting on public Scout skills demonstrations in the town park (signaling, fire by friction, monkey bridge, survival shelters, just to name a few things with a built-in cool factor), running a younger kids' free fishing derby... etc.

Same problem on Philmont treks, adults not being "the" adult when the scouts are doing the adult responsibilities is a skill that has to be practiced. And that is only if the adults want that skill. It gets worse if the project isn't going well because adults don't want to take two steps back. I remember eating one mile of trail before the crew leader realize his mistake. What I started doing as the SM was have a meeting with the lead adult working on the eagle projects or treks and instruct them of their behavior that was expected by the troop. Sometimes that might even be a parent, which makes it harder. In the case of an Eagle Project, it was the lead adult's responsibility to meet with all the other adults before the project that the scout was the boss, and to remind them during the project. Even with that, its hard to stop. I also find that if the SM doesn't guide or support boy led to the adults, nobody else really can make it happen. Barry

log spliter

>>I use the BSA hiking sock worn if actually hiking I wear them pushed down around the ankle, it keeps them little stones from finding their way into the boot that way. AK-Eagle

>>What pearls of wisdom can be given on this?

I had melanoma cancer back in 1990, so I try to watch myself in the sun. As a result, I became known as the hat expert (nut?) in our pack and troop. I have just about all the hats the BSA offers including several of their special addition hats that are still wrapped in plastic bags. But for the sunny hot two weeks treks of backpacking or boundary waters canoeing, I dont care much for the BSA hats. I need a wider brim hat that can take a beating. My favorite BSA hat is my campaign hat, but I never wore it. It was a gift from the pack and I wore it for cubs a few times, but I dont like to stick out and wearing that hat made me feel as if I was 10 feet tall. Still, I will always keep that hat because it reminds of everything good about scouting. Now our scouts like the military boony hats. They are cheap, durable and can be packed anywhere. That is if I can get the scouts to wear a hat. They unfortunately suffered under an adult leader who was concerned for their skin. Two things I seem to harp on more than I should was sun screen and head gear. My scouts never got a bad sun burn, but Im not sure that is something a boy run leader should be bragging about. One last thing. When I took over as the Cub Master of our pack, I found that the pack lost 50% of our first year Webelos and 90% of Webelos IIs. My goal was not only to change the trend of crossovering 90% of first year Webelos to Webelos IIs, but to cross 90% of them into the Troops. We tried many ideas, but one of them was the Webelos got to wear a boony hat to identify them as the older scouts of the pack. Each Webelos Den went to the Surplus store and chose their style and color of camo. So not only did they wear a different hat, but it had a different color than any other year of Webelos. I know it was camo and shouldnt have been, and it wasnt BSA, but it worked. Our Webelos felt special and our Bears couldnt wait to get that cool looking hats. That was 1993 and I hear the pack still has that tradition. I watched those scouts wear that boony hat all the way to their scouting career. I saw one on the Eagle.s disply table at his ECOH. I even saw some pictures of the hats on Church youth trips. Someof the adults still wear those hats on our church outtings. Sometimes the BSA just misses out on cool. Barry

>>Pretending it isn't a problem doesn't make it so.

You remind me of my first year as a scouter when we took our Webelos to summer camp. One of the mothers of anther Webelos den was very attractive by the opinions of most of the males and very comfortable with the attention she was getting from the Boy Scout age male staff. It created enough of a stir that a complaint was given to the camp director of the less attentive life guards in the swimming area when this den leader's den was down there. I also had a friend who quit their Venture Crew because he was tired of dealing with scouts sneaking to other tents in the middle of the night. He kept his tent between the boys and the girls to stop the late night visits, but he never got any sleep. And then finally, I was talking to a professional a few years back joking about such problems in coed programs and he told me that there are what they call "boy scout babies" in our Council. Its not as easy as it sounds. I found volunteering at church youth camp a very exhausting job for the same reason. Barry

>>The idea that only atheists obnoxious enough to state that they're atheists are kept out is a false one to put a better face on the BSA's religious requirements.

>>Is James Dale gay?

All my questions are genuine, your just not use to folks who think in learning and educating. I also do have a complex about getting the last word. But I must admit, I still don't see your point. So, FOR MY EDUCATION let me ask: Is James Dale gay?

So since you have to refer to gays to get the final word on the atheist question, it's safe to say you don't know of any athiest who was accepted into the BSA after admitting they were an atheist on their application. So its final, Beavah explination of the real world reality stands. Barry