Eagledad

Dale Case? The gay guy? OK, here is what you wrote "The idea that only ""atheists"" obnoxious enough to state that they're ""atheists"" are kept out is a false one to put a better face on the BSA's religious requirements." I will just assume that you are probably a busy activist working several forums and got confused, so here is the question asked so that you only have to respond quickly with one word. Do you know of an application the BSA knowingly accepted with the "atheist" box checked? Barry

>>The idea that only atheists obnoxious enough to state that they're atheists are kept out is a false one to put a better face on the BSA's religious requirements.

>>However, we do occasionally have a few parents who want to push an agenda through their children, eh?

>>Whatever happened to ASPL taking over when SPL wasn't able to attend?

>>The reason we do that instead of a full year is that a lot of our Scouts (and most of our best leaders) are in other activities throughout the year.

>>It would provide an opportunity for other adults (and perhaps the appropriate dad/mom/uncle) to involve themselves in program. It would get the patrol mostly working on cooking, rather than dining hall style service. It would reinforce scouts skills of camping, which is a plus. Based upon my family experiences it would simply be fun for the scouts! Since we dont have enough older scouts to do a high adventure trek (Philmont, Northern Tier, etc), it would be a less expensive way to have a more adventurous experience for all our scouts. None of these reasons alone are sufficient motivation to do a camp like this, but when you put everything together, it just makes sense. Also the bonus (which I would certainly hope for) is the bonding and camaraderie which might result from this type of experience. BP said that advancement is like a suntan, it is something which naturally occurs when being in the out of doors. I think the analogy would apply to the growth experience of this type of adventure as well: the camaraderie is not the goal, but it will happen naturally in this environment.

>>Interesting twist. We now have scouters claiming that atheist boys can join BSA but not adults?

>>I would hope that most camp staffs would welcome the opportunity to support a troop or patrol's program instead of just pushing the merit badge pathway.

>>Barry Once you see and feel these new shirts you will quickly change your mind

Well after reading your post a couple of times, I think it is very do-able. I have a bit of experience in this stuff and your view of it it sounds pretty good. Im not sure of your motivation however. Are you trying to get a bit more of the skills and badges part of the program you missed at camp? Motivation is important because this is going to requires a few months of dedicated planning by EVERYONE. To make it more difficult for you, you wont have the older scouts to help. We ran our own Webelos Summer camp, so I have a bit of a feel for not having older scouts around. It won't be a big deal once everyone gets into a routine. Your biggest logistic challenge will be food. We rented a large U-Haul trailer to store our many ice chest of food, and we still made daily trips to a nearby town for fresh meats, vegetables and ICE. You will need a Quartermaster and adult assistant just for the food alone. I will say this, you are looking at the short term benefits of this activity, but my experience is our program maturity accelerated four times faster than a normal troop program. You are condensing and forcing a coouple years of program into a few months. Both the adults and scouts will grow in this one activity. It is rewarding and very bonding for the whole group, but you will earn it with hard work and stress. It will be a long week, so plan plenty of fun time for everyone to decompress. Beating the adults in Whiffleball followed with watermelon seems very popular for some reason. Once you do this, you and your adults will not be able to keep up with the scouts because they will have learned that if you can dream it, it can happen. They will dream up a lot things. That is when you will really love this scouting stuff. Barry

Sounds like the outdoors shirts I use camping and backpacking. Would be a great field shirt for the Troops if they can get a different color. Barry

I like the idea of one year terms for the ASPL and SPL, but it does require a program scouts like to hang around. I know of a few troops that only elect the ASPL because they knowing they automatically step into the SPL position in the next year or term. Troops that use that method are typically very mature because any Scout running for ASPL is planning the next two years of his life in the troop. The ASPL and SPL are typically 16 or older in those troops. Their programs are typically very active and have an active outdoors adventure program. Barry

>>People constantly say I'm wrong, but hardly ever quote me and point out exactly what I said that was wrong>Ah, you were only accusing me, personally, of dishonesty when you wrote: I have hope that some day his brain will get around to recognizing what clearly his heart knows

Even a dozen teens from the chess club sitting in a tight close confined area (bus, train, plane or Chevy Suburban in their best behavior are going to be roudy by someone's definition. That's a lot of youthful energy condensed in a small space for a long time. Barry

>>Kahuna gave the answer...no need to read further.

>>Anyone else notice the contradiction in this?

National Eagle Scout Association

How old are your scouts?

If I remember right, the Eagle is not a Rank, it is an award. So it is not the same as wearing rank patches even though it does replace the Life patch. I'm struggling with the idea that the Eagle is a youth thing. I'm not an Eagle, but I don't see the honor that way. Its a life thing to me. Barry

>>I thought of this thread and thought about past EBOR I have attended, Camping and Adventure rarely come up any more, the boys talk about leadership. Gien the boys will only talk about what they have heard, I wonder how to turn things around

>>As for Scouts Canada - again, we're quick to point to external policies such as going co-ed and then trying to use the data we know to bolster our case, yet there is no definitive proof that Scouts Canada membership numbers dropped because of going co-ed.

We arent supposed to be invested in their goals, but we are supposed to teach them the skills of the process to reach their goals. Teach them to dream, set goals, plan and then how to methodically execute the plan. Those who practice those traits usually reach their goals. I think where most Scoutmasters fail is teaching planning and execution. Adults know in their mind how to complete a plan, but they dont know how to teach boys those skills. A SM should find those actions written somewhere. Even a new scout learning his knots should be encouraged set a new goal to learn more scout skills and to write that goal down. I really dont have a problem with asking a scout where he is at in his plan, whether that is the next campfire of his Eagle, because that is a discussion of how well he doing in his personal management skills (process). While I understand being concerned about their goals, our power is teaching the skills of the process that they will use for the rest of their life. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>It's almost as if they're actual eagles, sitting on the high branch observing the proceedings below, occasionally participating but generally staying "above the fray."

>>the primary concern for ALL leaders is this: what's best for the boys.

>>NO NO NO NO! Uniforms are NOT required for travel. They are a way to identify you and your scouts from others.