Eagledad

>>thankfully in the few years I've been involved with the troop we have not had any major issues that required committee discussions on discipline and the like that is often talked about on here - when it can't be dealt with solely by the SPL it's all been handled by the SM and ASM

>>Another take - is it worth it for a kid who is unlikely to be able to apply a lot of what he learns directly to his troop? (Maybe he is less active in the troop leadership than he once was, maybe the troop is so adult-led that he wouldn't have a chance, maybe he'll be aging out in the next year). I see it is supposed to be applicable to troop leadership, and no doubt it would be fun, but it isn't clear to me whether this is a prudent use of resources for a lot of fellows. I'd really like to hear more about why it is worth it, from those who have some direct experience.

This is kind strange reading. Our committee looks forward to the SPL report because it is one of the few times committee members get to work with him and ask questions. They truly enjoy watching the SPL in action. The SPL is usually first on the agenda so that he can get in and get out in so as not to take much of his personal time. However he is welcome to stay the whole meeting if he wants and some have with the comment following later that the adults run the meeting the same as he is trained to run a PLC meeting. There are few down sides mentioned here, but there are no down sides from our experiences. I have never heard an SPL say they didn't enjoy the opportunity. Its their choice because we know they are busy, but they usually came. Barry

Then you arent seeing the bigger picture. Your theory doesnt hold because we dont have the same loses of boys at the Wolf and Bear years. Most adults at the Webelos age are not new to the program (Tiger, Wolf, Bear), they are experienced and understand how to work with boys, so arm twisting shouldnt have to be required. Also even if the leader is new, they should been recruited and trained well in advance if they are motivated for the job. Any Webelos leader who needs their arm twisted is an adult who doesnt want to be there, and those are the dens we are talking about. That is where most of the 50% of Webelos loses are coming from. Special training like your training can band-aid the problem somewhat, but its not the answer to the bigger problem of unmotivated leaders. I think the BSA Webelos training is sufficient if the adult is motivated to do the job. The problem is the unmotivated Webelos leaders. And, the problem isnt their training, but that they are not motivated. Why arent they motivated? Fix that and you will fix a lot of other problems as well. As for preparing boys for Troops, just what else can the BSA do at a national level that they arent already doing? The Webelos leader is second most trained leader behind the Scoutmaster. See, this is where you are confusing the issues. Once a boy gets into a troop, losing that boy is the Troops responsibility, not the pack. IF we are losing more than 50% if the Webelos before crossing over into the troop, then that is a cub program problem. And that has very little to do with whether the boy is prepared for the troop program or not. If we could get just half of that 50% of the boys we are losing and they had absolutly no skills at all when they join a troop, the numbers would still jump up because we got them there. Of course we still have the first year drop problem, but that problem has very little to do with skills the boy bring anyway. We know that because the troops are loosing the skilled ones just as fast the lesser skilled problem. As for Tigers, well that is a different problem that National just doesnt want to understand. And, while the Webelos program have nothing to do with the Tiger dropouts, the Tiger program is directly related to the Webelos dropouts. Barry

>>The problem with your scenario is that it is not what happens in the real world.

>>the real problem is the Webelos program itself. A two year program doing the same thing each year and expecting to keep older boys interested is not very realistic.>For a two year Webelos program to work and for the boys to successfully transition and do well in a troop the pack, and WDL need to follow a program that really prepares the boys, unfortunately many do not and the horrible statistics are the proof.

>>Hispanics dropped because of the LDS affliations

>>Wood Badge would just be one more step, and a majority of committees in my district state in their bylaws that WB is mandatory for all DC leaders (just as NYLT is mandatory for ASPL and SPL).

>>however don't try to tell them it will make them better committee members, it just is not true.

>>What if you need to replace an SM or ASM? Wouldnt it be great if your candidates from the committee were already on their way to being fully trained to do the job?

>>I stated very clearly that if a committee person wanted to take WB they should. I followed up with stating that in my opinion WB would not necessarily make them a better committee members because the traing has a very different focus.

>>I know of a SM that disregards advice from a Woodbadge and Powderhorn trained volunteer and does not understand or use the "methods" of scouting either. It's almost as if they want the benefits (i.e., insurance coverage) scouting has to offer but then not follow the program.

While I agree with the Beavh, I was the District fireman for struggling units and there are a few common traits of the units that really struggle. 1. The dont have a common goal, each adults just kind of does their own thing to what they think is their job. 2. No training because they view their job as pretty simple and just do what they think should be done. 3. Very little planning, mostly just shooting from the hip on a month to month basis. When I worked with these units, the very first thing was getting them trained. At the same time I showed them Scoutings Mission and Vision Statements. I would have them discuss setting goals toward the BSAs goals, mostly just to get them to see there is a direction for everyone to follow. I asked every leader to list their responsibilities on a chart until they started seeing that everyone actually did have an expected set of responsibilities for their part on the team. I also help them look one year into the future of their program. You would be amazed how that alone helps the adults to fit better into the program. That takes a little bit of time, but you can kind of understand the value in those simple traits of a successful team or unit. I highly push Wood Badge on the Committee Chair and SM or CM since they are perceived as the team leaders. Wood Badge is an excellent team training course and goes into much greater detail to those items I mention above. Barry

>>Anyone know what the problem is? Is this a typical drop out rate?

Our Council assumes responsibility for finding COs. That being said, units found all the COs that I can remember. Our Troop even found one before our present CO had a change of heart toward our troop. Barry

>>I haven't had to deal with removing a Scout yet and hope I never do.

>>Second biggest change has been parental expectations that their kids should be involved in a half dozen things; I seem to remember only bein' in one or two.

>>I'm not sure what the answer really is... I think it's something that each boy should have the opportunity to do and learn things about themselves and the skills they poccess.

>>"Johnny really doesn't want to be in Scouts, and I think it would be better for Johnny if he stopped."

>>What do the rest of you think? Yeh think scouting scheduling adds disproportionately to the scheduling burden?

Doctors are like engineers, they each have different opinions of how to do their job. I had one scout who by the age 15 had been through 4 heart surgeries. His doctor had no problem with Philmont and approved him to go. I was the one who kept questioning the scout and his dad if he was healthy enough for the trek. He had the doctor write me a personal letter, which I sent to Philmont along with all his medical history. I was convinced Philmont would say no, but they had no trouble letting him go. I also have a 5 7 115 lb. son who has done three Philmont treks. The only thing I saw him struggle at because of his size was lifting a canoe out of the water on to his shoulders while at Northern Tier. He had no trouble with the 80lb Duluth packs, but the canoes size was just awkward for his size. I would get another doctors opinion for this young man. Barry

>>I go agree with Gonzo that the boy should be able to carry his own pack.

>>My career requires me to be cynical, that should have been obvious from my Username.

>>Of course the Scout has no where to go for help, he can't push back on his parents, and he views all the SM's and ASM's as on the parent's side...gung ho and what not. Seems like there is a point where Scouting does more harm than good.

>>My advice is to learn your position, enjoy your time with your son, it is all about him and his scout experience. RIGHT?????