Eagledad

Good boy run units have two things that make them successful; goals or vision for all their scouts, and the understanding that the scouts have to grow from their experience from the scouting activities, not classroom instruction or standup lectures. I have watched many troops that were boy run, but the scouts didn't grow much because the adults didn't have a long range goal for their scouts. A lot of adults think Eagle or SPL are good goals, but realistactly those are not the dreams of all scouts and should not be set by adults. The program needs to be driven toward more noble goals that requires scouts working and relying on each to rah the goals. It's easy to force all patrols 100ft apart, but if the scouts don't become a team and grow from their participation in patrol and troop activities, they will get bored and move on. As I said before, the are just some principles of nature that are hard to change without interference from the adults in boy run troop. A patrol of young scouts the same age don't do very in a boy run program without a lot of help from the adults. And, boys under 14 do not enjoy true leadership in a boy run troop without a lot of help from the adults. The more the adults are involved in the scouts activities, the less boy run troop is. So if you have the older scouts in your troop, try to work around those 2 principles as much as you can. If you don't have the older scouts yet, don't ignore the vision and strive to build independent functional patrols. Eagle92, I think I learned more about from your last post than all the others. Barry

When I look back on my scouting experience as a youth and as an adult, Scouting is the one place I know where everyone excepts you for who you are. At least that is my experience. The program is also a broad enough that every boy can find something he is good at. Back when Camporees were really competative and troops were ranked by where they place in the last camporee, the difference in winning was a matter of a few seconds. We were really good at skills back then because you carried your troop and patrol tankings for a year. Well it turned out that was very good at knots and lashings, so I was the guy who walked around checking all my patrol mates knots during knot tieing events. I didn't tie the knots, I checked everyone elses knots. You have to understand that we had mixed age patrols with several patrol members old enough to drive. So for a skinny 11 year old kid to be accepted enough where the old guys could be told their knots were wrong was a pretty big deal. Barry

You are right to some degree I guess, but the reason activist attacked traditional heteralsexual marriage was to dilute the image of a traditional family. They have been chiseling away at religious and traditional institutions that impede the general acceptance of homosexuality as immoral or abnormal. That is why the BSA was such a big target. As pack points out, traditional marriages are in decline. This kind of goes along with the earlier discussion that homosexuality isnt so much the primary cause of the decline of morality in our culture as it is a major indicator of the growth or peaking of immorality. What next, a reality shows of polygamy? Barry

>>Boy Scout troops are also (theoretically) boy led. If practice makes perfect, then the Boy Scouts should be getting a whole lot more practice leading and planning than the Girl Scouts do.

Our guys just walk, never heard a complaint, but bugles are not a bad idea. There was one time I did think 300 ft was to far, a scout came and found me in the middle of a very cold below zero night because his buddy got the stomach flu. There was no moon, lots of snow and lots of low tree branches. I tought I would never find his tent. Kind of reminds me of story about the general rule of out-houses. In the day, out-houses were generally located 100 ft from the house. Most folks felt it was 100ft to close in the summer and 100ft to far in the winter. Barry

LOL whoops Thanks John Stupid ipad

//These are issues addressed in the Ten Commandments, by countless philosophers, in Victorian England, and in nearly any other culture in time or place we look.// Exactly what I just said. Go read my first reply to you. The difference between us is I do look at the facts and see where the conclusion falls out. You want your conclusion and choose to ignore what doest fit. Barry

//Eagledad, care to share your explanation for what you think 'natural' is?// Sure I believe natural sex for all critters is the instinctive act to appropriate. I believe only humans have sex without the desire to appropriate. I believe sex without the desire to appropriate is only a self serving act for pleasure or emotion and not natural. I don't know why two animals of the same gender act in what appears to be sex, but i dont think it is sex because they arent trying to appropriate. I dont think it is for pleasure, but I do think it is instinctive. Well i do know why dogs do, it's an instinctive position of dominance for both genders, which might be the explanation for most animals. Barry Barry

//Homosexuality is natural because it is found in nature.// I don't agree.

>>The nature of theories is to base them upon facts, but they remain theories because the facts of them cannot be proven yet or at all.

>>Edit: I wonder....what is 'perverse' to a monkey?

Interesting civil discussion. I do want to add one point. >>Now, I have a degree in anthropology. History shows that there is nothing unnatural about homosexuality. It has been documented for thousands of years.

Yes, he can participate in Troop activities and still be a Webelos. I ran into this a lot with Packs who had full year programs for all their dens. He can't register in both unit, but if the unit leaders are willing, he can participate in both. Its kind of a hassle for the troop, but a lot of them do it all with Webelos Dens that want to start working with the troop even though they haven't had received their awards yet. If you want to try this, make sure everyone in both units understands whats going on so there isn't any slip ups like the troop turning in paperwork for the scout. Once a boy signs up for the troop, he can't receive any cub awards without going through a huge hassle. Barry

>>For those of you who might think extending the tax cuts to the millionaires will create jobs, well they have those cuts now. Where are the jobs?

>>A CoH should be just like a Troop meeting - attendance expected.

Most of my observations is attendence is a lot better when the scouts plan and run the courts of honor. Our scouts like to plan food and fun in our COHs. There goal is to have enough fun that brothers and sisters will have fun as well. Bingo was a big night. For you troops that force attendence, how are scouts punish when they don't show. On a side note, forcing scouts to do anything hides problems. If scouts aren't coming, something is wrong. Its like punishing scouts when they don't wear the expected uniform. If a scout doesn't wear a uniform correctly, 9 times out of 10 the scout has some personal problems outside of scouting. In general most scouts aren't bad, but they tend act out when something isn't right. Freedom to choose is the best way to indentify problems whether the problem is personal or in the troop program. Barry

>>That's why I think da Tea Party folks are denser than lead. A vote for tax cuts and smaller government must be accompanied by serious cuts to Social Security, Medicare, defense, etc.>That's why I think da Tea Party folks are denser than lead. A vote for tax cuts and smaller government must be accompanied by serious cuts to Social Security, Medicare, defense, etc.

When we had a couple over aggressive MB Counselor parents, we avoided confrontation with the parents by requiring all the troop's MB Counselors take our troop MBC training again. The training was just basically teaching what the BSA and troop committee expects from the counselors. Not that the two expectations are different, but it was the opportunity for the trainer to explain what the SM was not going to stand for Parent Child MB counseling abuse. It worked pretty good. We didnt forbide it, but we scrutinized it. We had one parent with two sons in the troop who tried to hide his manipulation of the system by not becoming a MBC himself and instead recruited friends and relatives to do to be his sons counselors. He would sign them up on his own then turn the paperwork in to the council. His sons were racking up badges pretty quick until we forced the counselors take our training. That scared them off. We then asked the parent to be our Advancement Chairman mentor so he would be forced to learn and work by the BSA guidelines. He turned out to be a pretty good chairman and we didnt have anymore parent troubles after him. Barry

Yes, but you have to give the SM a break, it's a hard responsibility. As you will learn in life, when you don't have experience to work from, you revert to theory. Most of the humble SMs on this forum will admit that theory rarely looks the same as experience. Once I was brought down to my knees by the failures of my theories, I understood that I needed to learn more from our troop activities than the scouts to begin to be a good scoutmaster. Your SM hasn't had enough time to learn that yet. The next best thing would be for you to do your well enough that he learns by watching you. You have a good plan, you will do well by training your SPL and PLs. If all goes well, you might even be training a SM as well. Sorry, New York is a bit far on motorcycle. But if you ever pass through going to Philmont, I will buy you lunch. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Hi platypus, I'm with John-in-kc, he has some good advice. Scouts are limited only by the adults. And it takes 3 yeas even for the best SMs to get the hang of their job. Adults just dont change that fast. So the small bite analogy is good. It appears you have respect by the troop, so you are going to have to be the voice (example) of reason. In that, do like John suggested and support the SPL. Help him learn from his experiences, struggles and all. Give him something positive he can take from the experiance. Set the example of good mentorship for even the adults to see, but without stepping on anyones toes. Be mature not confrontational. You may be the smartest guy in the room, but to the adults you are still the kid. They do have their pride to protect after all. Always listen, never yell for any reason and always walk. Then you will set the example of "calm". Something even adults admire. You are in a tough spot, but you and the troop can gain from it. And sadly enough, this is part of life, so learn the lessons from it and grow for your own future. I have enjoyed reading your post because you appear to be pretty sharp. I use to be the Council JLT Chairman and enjoyed working with many scouts just like you. You will do well in the future. Is your troop near Oklahoma? Barry

// It is just some increased regulation of an insurance industry that badly needed increased regulation to stop them from ripping off the public.// LOL Good one NJ, even my liberal friends had a good laugh with that one. Barry

RINOs are generally associated as liberal leaning Republicans ( U.S. Senator Olympia J. Snowe (R-Maine)). Tea party folks are not Associated with any party but latched on the Republican ticket this round to stop the present direction of Washington. Since Tea Party folks are more conservative in nature,they will never be confused as RINOs. From the Tea Party Web site: The movement's primary concerns include, but are not limited to, cutting back the size of government, lowering taxes, reducing wasteful spending, reducing the national debt and federal budget deficit, and adherence to an originalist interpretation of the United States Constitution. If the democrats ever step back toward the middle, they will see some Tea Party support. My personal observation is the Tea Party is a Neo Revolution by the common people. They are basically folks who didn't get involved in politics before, but got very motivated once the policies of the last 2 years were rammed through passage. Some folks say a core group of Tea Party type people have been around since the first Bush. It took Obama to get them organized into group with influence. Repelling Obamacare will keep them motivated for the near future. Barry

//The arbitrary mixing by adults// Who said that? Mixed age patrols do not equate to adult control, much less arbitrary. I'm sure there are some valid reasons for using same age patrols, but over controlling adults is not one. In fact the big problem with same aged patrols is they tend to require more adult interference than mixed age patrols because the patrols are less exposed to scouts with different experiences. The risk of over controlling adults is much greater in troops that use same age patrols, which is a common problem with new troops. Barry

Well you lost me Stosh, I'm a simple man, so maybe it's just me, but that is very confusing, analogy?, theory? It does appear you like to group your scouts by rank and advancement and that's a big difference between our program styles. I don't measure a scouts growth by their rank all that much, but I can see how same age patrols would work better in that style of program. I guess its all in the adults vision. Barry

A scout's growth is only limited by the quality of people in his immediate environment. The scouts in same age patrols only have scouts with the same experience as their own. I found that scouts in same age patrols grow at half the speed of mixed age patrols. And worse, typically troops with same age patrols have a lot of adult interaction to force thegrowth, usally by instruction. They have to because the other scouts aren't near by. Especially for troops that separate the patrols by 100 ft. or more. As for breaking up patrols for older scout adventures, we don't do that. Our adventure crews meet outside of troop and patrol activities and dissolve once the trek or adventure is over. I dont keep track now, but We probably average between 4to 6 temporary adventure crews a year while i was scoutmaster that have done everything from snow skiing to scuba in Mexico. And all ages are welcome provided the the scout is physically and mentally mature for the activity and there are no age restrictions like Philmont. Barry