Eagledad

We had a situation like this and we did call it a youth protection issue because it scared the bejebers (is that how you spell it?) out of the scouts. Call the cops? Common Beav, and waste their time for what looks to them like a parent loosing a temper? Maybe because I had to deal with similar situations, I think this is a good topic. And by the way, this is the number question I got from new leaders at my Scoutmaster Specific Class. First thing you do is remove the adult immediately. Have a committee meeting with the adult as soon as possible to review the behavior and discuss the adults future contact with the scouts. I suggest a very small limited committee to minimize rumors and to keep the discussion quick. I would also suggest a representative of the either the district or council to witness the meeting. In our case we had a very good District Commissioner and Unit Commissioner both trusted by the Council. The problem with these kinds of things is nobody wants to be a bad guy and most people dont like confrontation, especially volunteers. In fact, the adult might even be a neighbor. I find women are better at this than men, maybe its a protection instinct. We had a female CC who had no trouble putting adult behavior in its true context. But, experience had taught me that if these things are left unsettled, the adult will likely repeat the behavior. You must protect your scouts. And lets be clear, we are not talking about an adult who snapped at a scout after a long hard rainy day on a campout, we are talking about repeated dangerous behavior. I can think of four situations in past years in both the Troop and the Pack (two women and two men) where the offending adults were restricted from all scouting activities for the safety of the scouts. One adult was reported to the district and council for child abuse. Another was sent to rehab by the family for six months. Everyone likes to point out reporting these incidents to the Chief Executive, I guess because they assume Council will take over and fix the problem. They will not. Instead you likely receive What is your committee doing about this matter?. They will even send someone to monitor the meeting if needed. But Unless the council sees that this is a really bad situation that they must get control, they will expect your unit to take care of the matter. Myabe because we learn to be proactive, but we were never given advice by the council, not even in the child abuse case. So reporting to the Chief Executive should not be at the top of your units list of actions taken to protect the scouts. Your unit must first take proactive actions to protect the scouts and just consider reporting to council as more of a getting the situation on record. Except in extreme cases of course. I think these kinds of things are unusual, that I been involved with four is more a matter of big units and a lot of time in scouting. I would like to suggest every committee have a plan in case something like this comes up, but I think that is unrealistic because as I said, the reality is most adults in a volunteer organization will tend to turn a blind eye until the situation gets dangerous. The best advice I like to give adults is Protect the Scouts. I know it kind of sounds silly to say that, but its almost like we have to give adult leaders permission to confront aggressive behavior. Or maybe its more like giving the cowardly lion courage, I dont know. But some adults out there have behavior problems, likely you wont ever see any in your unit, but if you see do something that you dont like, Protect the Scouts. Barry

>>1) I would make sure the SPL and SM shake them down prior to the trip to ensure they have everything they need.

>>I found it interesting you listed "Adult leaders may not be the best all the time" as a CON of scouting but not sports.

>>Now I admit I didn't follow protocols to get my DC. I had my eye on a young man, told the CM I want him, and then went to the SM. MY personal requirements for DC, stressing personal requirements, is that he has basic scoutcraft down pat (usually meaning First Class, but if I got a gung ho Scout who knows his stuff and isn't FC yet, I'll take him), is mature, can work with the kids, AND keeps his grades up in school. Minute grades falter b/c he is over-committed, I don't want him, or her if a Venturer. School is the most important thing IMHO.

>>But thinking that a teacher or guidance counselor can diagnose something this complex is delusional.

I been working with psychologist for 15 years, so I have learned a lot about them and their field. They are also a great resource for discussions that come up in this forum. But because of that, I will come right up front and admit that I have very little respect for psychologist and their vocation. I have come to have even less respect for the opinions of psychologist on this forum. I just know too much about them and the APA. That being said, I went and asked them about the subject of this discussion. One psychologist I talked with said he firmly believes their field and the psychiatric field have done more harm than good to our generation of youth. However, its not just them, we have developed into a culture of quick fixes (his words). The conclusion is that parents are more self focused and dont give their family the time together needed for kids to grow up expressing themselves both physically and mentally. He says the large number of ADD diagnoses is in part a result of a culture of moms working. Before that time, mothers spent a large part of their time staying busy with their kids. If you ever watched very many episodes of the program Dog Whisperer, you find that 90% of the time the host of the show, Caesar, says the owner isnt walking or giving the dog enough attention and as a result, the dog gets restless and gets in to trouble. Its basically the same with humans. Our kids are energetic and their minds need stimulus. But todays parents are either too busy or too tired to give their kids the time needed to give them that stimulus. So we hand them over to the TV and video games to baby sit for us. But its not just a parent thing, its cultural. My son is also diagnosed ADD, BY HIS TEACHER. In fact the majority of kids who go for testing were first asked by the teacher to get them tested. Parents dont know better, so they have the kids tested and then find themselves being swayed by the experts. My coworker says that we should teach parents that a teacher asking for an ADD test is really a call to the parents to change something in their family habits. Its a cycle that is next to impossible to change. Parents are busy and kids are energetic, which result in a collision at a cultural level leading to a generation of drug up kids. One last thing, my psychologist coworker was telling me that while there is a lot of talk about the social side effects of druging kids, there is just as many problems with the physical side effects. For example, our bodies generally resist puberty while on some of these drugs. He said a lot of adults in their 20s are seeking physiological therapy because they are five and six years behind their friends in sexual maturity. It causes all kinds of relationship problems for the rest of their life. He also said many drugs cause physical problems that force kids into strange habits or what he called tics. Some drugs create symptoms of dry mouth, or something like that, and kids develop tics of swallowing or clearing their throat as a result. I asked him what he felt was a solution to the problem. He said that drugging kids now is so ingrained in our society that he couldnt think of a solution. He said even if kids get off drugs, our video game and TV culture would likely just fill in and cause new side effects. He said it is very unlikely that we will get back to a culture of being the kind of parents that kids need. I was surprised and saddened by his lack of hope. He does see Boy Scouts as a very positive activity for boys. Barry

>>I have recently taken a District Position as a Training Chair after causing much trouble over the real rules vs traditions.

>>Maybe dad needs to stay home and see what happens.

He is just acting in mature. It's common and someone he respects needs to talk with him before someone does get offened. I had 23 year old ASM who cussed around the boys when I wasn't around. He was just trying to be cool and we had a talk about, but it was a lawyer dad (eagle scout too) who came in a troop meeting with paperwork already filled out to sue the troop that got the 23 year old's attention. He acted like an adult around the boys after that. Barry

I must say that I really enjoyed working with scouts and scouter between the ages of 16 and 24. The ones that are still active are typically sharp and enthusiastic. They are also the right age for younger scouts to look up to in an older brother sort of way. We always tried to get an 18 to 21 year old as one of the adults on our High Adventure crews. They loved the perks of being an adult on the Philmont crews. I specifically looked for college age scouters to be the JLTC course director. And I personally found experienced scoutmasters to be the course Scoutmaster and the course director assistant. The assistant's real purpose was to be a mentor for the director with the understanding that the director was fully en charge and held fully responsible by the council for the course performance. I love working with that age group. Barry

>>perdidochas - those bic lights now have that safty guard on top to keep little kids from getting them to light... if you take a plyers and pull that off your lighter will dry much quicker if it gets wet!

Maybe its the engineer in me, but I think it's a pretty cool, but then I like the battery and steel wool idea also. My scouts once used a Estes rocket motor to start an impressive campfire for the parents. No one was within 30 feet of the stacked logs and all of a sudden the flames were 15 feet in the air. The parents were impressed. Their scout leader was proud, but then again like that kind of stuff. I admit that I'm a gadget guy but I thought most scouts were. Aren't the same principles (friction, pressure) used to start a fire using a bow and rod use in the Fire Piston. Good things to teach. I guess it is a bit pricey compared to flint and steel, but how are the prices of a GPS pricey compared to the compass? My opinion is teach all the different methods and tools because one never knows what may be in reach when the need comes. Be prepared. Barry

>>I think that a Scoutmaster who gets dropped off by his second or third wife, or the girlfriend he left his last wife for, sends an equally powerful message, particularly in a unit that is chartered by a Christian church of some sort. Jesus spoke specifically on that point. If we are to be an exclusive organization, then perhaps we should be a bit more consistent in our exclusions. I wonder how many leaders we'd lose if we actually walked the talk... Which is the point of accepting role models who exibit immoral behavior, there were no adults like that in my troop when I was a scout and I am pretty sure they weren't invited to be a leader. So what has changed in the last 40 years? Barry

Our Scouts organized a few Mafeking campouts, but they change the theme to Star Wars and Star Trek. They enjoyed the games because they did them at night. They started about 9:00 PM after the campfire and ended around 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. It was the only campouts where the adults fixed breakfast for them. Barry

We had around 15 Eagles while I was Scoutmaster. Of the 15, 10 finished their Eagle within six months of their 18th birthday. However, we have an active program that the scouts like to hang around. 40% of our scouts are 14 and older. Around the corner is a much larger troop that gives each new scout a road map to earning Eagle by age 14. They pick 14 because they loose 75% of their scouts at that age. For what ever reason, the scouts don't like to hang around after that. So, if a scout wants to get his Eagle in that troop, he needs to get it by age 14. There is no hurry in our troop. Troops make a difference. I've done this a while and have worked with many moms like your wife. They rarely are quick to change. They have an agenda that in their mind is in the "best" interest of their son. It takes a lot of educating and time to convince mom that everyone else has that same best interest. So, I'm not sure much can change in the short time. We leaders think in a five or six year time frame. Moms typically think in two or three. I'm pretty sure your wife doesn't see your son in a scout uniform past 14 because she has other things lined up for her son to build is resume for life. I think your son is going to have to set the course here, but it would be nice if dad could help soften the path a little. Barry

>>The only effect would be more field uniforms at the parade, at the camporee, at the scout shop, at summer camp. Is that bad?

>>"Too often, Venturing Crews are simply nothing more than Boy Scout Troops with forest green shirts."

Boy there is some really good advice. I do agree that two of the same family should not have access to the account. My wife was our treasure and it was difficult since I was the SM. I do agree with the annual audit. I dont agree with having a pre approval for spending money. Unforeseen things pop up. We had a discretionary limit for unforeseen items. It still requires two signatures, just not a committee preapproval. I think you will have to find your style of doing the job, but try to always consider the next person who takes your job. My wife counted that she had processed 40,000 checks in the eight years as the troop treasure, so it can take a lot of time and get out of control rather quickly. If you need to set some ground rules to maintain control, dont be afraid to approach the committee. Barry

>>And yes, I know that behavior is part of the story here, but how far do you want to take that?

>>I wouldn't worry about the BSA changing its policy, it probably isn't going to happen anytime soon. And I know they don't listen to "NJCubScouter",

>>I don't know if this is per say JLT.. But, I do think it is more JLT the TLT.. The one thing with district JLT is that our district use to run it. All Troops depended on it, and when district stopped doing it, the Troops did not know how to run their own. That's because Adult Trainers organized and ran it.

>>Cna an instructor use the book as a referecne, i.e. he forgot to make his note cards, absolutely.

>>I have some ideas, but I have not approached my District with it, and I am worried about the response of if we can pull it off. If I can convince them the youth can rise to this challenge. I also worry about those on my training staff worring that the youth will replace them so I am looking for ways to include the staff with helping train the youth instructors and making sure what they plan to present is of quality.. I am curious if this is something you guys have already put into action. If so, I would love to know more on how to successfully implement this.

>>Barry, I can never keep track. Was that the good WB, the bad WB or the one in between?

I still have my s/s collarless shirt from the early 70's and 100lbs ago. The neckerchiefs were bigger then and they were important tools as well as uniform. My scouts laughed at me as I tried without success to teach first aid with todays size of neckerchief. Barry