Eagledad

>>My troop provides zero leadership to the district

District sets the pattern of the quality for units. They can do that in several ways, but training is the largest contributer to unit quality, good or bad. I found that many of the bad habits the units used in our district were a result of the district simply not knowing BSA policies, so they kept teaching the wrong proceedures and policies even though it was not in the material. At the pack level the District didnt understand the harm of Webelos submitting Troop Applications to the Troops before the scout received his AOL. Council just let it go for a while but eventually National had to make a call. At the troop level most Scoutmasters didnt know the process where the scout seeks the MB Counselor list from the SM and is supposed call the counselor and get the SM signature on the MB card before he starts work on the requirements. We found that the SMs were using the same process in their units that the District used for MB College, which was just find a counselor and the adults will do the rest. We have found that on average, unit quality represents the quality of the district program, primarily training. I really saw this in a Colorado district where most of the Troops were very Boy Run because the district encouraged very boy run program. And districts feed off the quality of the units for their chair positions, so it can be a vicious circle of bad unit leaders becoming bad district leaders. Bad district leaders encourage bad quality units which result in bad unit leaders. Trends can be hard to change, but we fixed a few problems by replacing the whole training committee with good teachers who actually taught the material. The District Training Chairman recieved the Silver Beaver for her efforts. So its hard to know from the limited information if Basement's troop is feeding his district, or his district is feeding his troop, but it appears something needs to change. Just kidding of course. Barry

Like some of the others, I dont really know what a helicopter parent is. I do understand what its like to be a parent and a SM. As a SM, I understand the parenting part of us can interfere with the growth part of the scout. I found myself coaching parents just as much as coaching scouts. From my SM point of view, we arent so much trying to develop skills in scouts as were trying to develop the confidence for them to take the initiative for taking on challening task where they themselves learn skills. I like to teach adults that we arent trying to light up the dark room so the scouts can see to enter, the confidence we want to give is a flashlight they can use to enter the dark room and turn the light on themselves. The adults job isnt lighting up the dark, its only giving them the flashlight. In your sons case, and in most young scouts like him, he knows what he wants to say to the SM, he just lacks the confidence to do it. We do several small lessons to give scouts the confidence to approach and talk with adults. One small way of doing that is through calling adults to set up arrangements for their activities. We teach the scouts how to contact all MB counselors on their own and set up their meetings and get the information for filling out the MB Card. In just a couple minutes time, we show them how to identify themselves to the counselor and then explain why he is calling. No big deal to adults or even 14 year olds, but to 10 and 11 year olds who only uses texting for communication with strangers, it is a Huge scary obstacle. A little practice with the parents or SM and a little boost of encouragement, they go make that call. Typically the first MC call is really hard, the second is easier and the third is no big deal. It actually surprised us adults that it only took three MBs for the scouts to have the confidence to contact all their counselors on their own initiative. For the scouts in your troop, not just your son, figure out the skill they lack for that little bit of confidence they need to reach the bigger goal. If your son has trouble talking to other adults or authority figures dont focus on the goal of the SM Conference or discussion on the lost book, focus on building just enough confidence to get him to make that first step. It will take courage on his part, but he will be reward by the success of his talk. You will learn that these guys are really pretty brave, so they dont need as much of a boost or flashlight as you think. And that one small step will give them the confidence for the next bigger step. That is the difference between how a parent does things and a scout leader. Just a little nudge, thats basically all they need, then once they get going, it will be all you can do to keep up. As your scouts get older and more experienced, you will see them become more courageous in taking on challenging task like planning activities and mature leader positions. They might even run for student council president. Just remember, they dont need you to turn the light on, they just needed a little bit of confidence to enter the dark room and turn the light on themself. When you master this skill, you will understand more why you love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>It is not the UC's job to replace the CC. Though I can imagine the desire to do so, sometimes. Still, it is good to have prospects in mind, and maybe to chat with the COR about thins, as Eamonn suggests.

>>DLChris71, can I ask you straight out if you accept those national Scouting Organisations which don't exclude gay people as being just as much Scouts as BSA?

>>As a matter of fact, the COR might make a fine CC! There is also a business executive recently recruited .... He would be a likely prospect to be CC as well.

Because TSAs new high-tech x-ray found a comb in my back pocket, I was invited to spend another 15 minutes getting questioned, frisked, wanded and run through the metal detector. However, they gave back the comb back without any restrictions for using it on the plane. Barry

Its my experience that we adults rarely change patterns. The choice for change is usually change the adult or add more adults to balance the one. But trying to change the one adult's pattern is usually not a productive route to go in the long run. Barry

>>So it is really hard for any of us, thinking locally and our own limited experience, to know how a policy change would help or hurt Scouts as a whole. IMPO I think given the folks that make it a priority it would probably hurt more than help.

>>All that is to say, we should accept individuals, not their gender into positions of responsibility. If ther is a female with integrity and direct-contact skills and experience, then you may be doing your boys a disservice by passing them over for less qualified males. Your making a trade off between preserving a culture for some hypothetical gain and being flexible to address immediate needs.

>>For the BSA, then, the question becomes "do we need those COs?"

>>Ask any of my scouts if it matters to them that their Scoutmaster is a woman.

>>I agree. WE are supposed to be preparing thee boys for handling themselves in the real world. WEll. the real world has women in it!

>>The grubmaster makes the menu and collects the money, the trip planner recruits the drivers. Again, the boys should be doing this if they aren't all ready

Den meetings for us. Barry

This is a great subject and a worthy discussion. I found myself struggling to define boy run when I became the District Membership Chairman while at the same time the passionate Scoutmaster of a boy run Troop. Our district had 19 troops at the time and virtually every one of them was by their adult leaders definition a boy run program. We had one boy run troop that struggled to hold on to a dozen scouts every year as well as a SM. On the other end was a boy run troop 180 scouts strong that required every first year scout to attend a MB class before every troop meeting until they earn a minimum number of badges. As the membership chairman, I was responsible for the quality of the membership recruitment of each unit, so I got to observed most of the 19 troops pretty close to learn how their programs performed. What I learned from them over the years is that boy run is defined within the abilities and limitations of the adults providing the program. Fro example, while most adults admit that a boy scouting experience develops character, few can really explain why. Can you? Many other adults could write how-to books for scouts who want to be Eagle by age 14 and many other adults are experts of living out of a back pack. Each of those adults manage a boy run program. Are they wrong in their definition? You need to ask their scouts. I been a little frustrated in past years when I read on this forum from scouters who vilify adult leaders because they dont run their boy run troop under the same definition as their own. One scouter here has gone so far as to call those adults of which he disagrees bullies. While I have a much defined idea of a boy run program, God balance my criticism of other adults by putting me in the position of measuring the satisfaction of scouts in other troops. And while I admit membership can have broad definitions of performance, I through other scouting activities was able to personally speak with scouts from other troops and learn how they felt about their troop. I found that while their troop may not function under my personal definition of boy run, the scouts still enjoyed being involved in their boy run troop. And while I felt and still feel that our troop boy run program is the best at developing leaders, I had the pleasure of working many outstanding youth leaders from other troops. After three years of being a membership chairman, I traded some of my pride for humility and drew a lot more respect for adults just willing to take on the task of guiding our sons toward the goal of making moral decision based from the Scout Law. Most didnt even know that was what they were supposed to do, but the scouts and their families didnt care. The scouts wanted to be part of that troop. I concluded that families really do need to shop for the troop that fits their style. Some families need more security on campouts than our boy run program is willing to provide. Some need more promise of advancement and some families want a lot of out door activities. Some just want merit badge resources. Our they really that far off from boy run? Thats not to say that I didnt give advice and guidance to struggling troops seeking help to develop a better boy run program. Hey, if they asked, I am a willing passionate boy run expert who wants to share the wealth. But lets face it, arent we all basically ignorant parents volunteering to work with your sons? Are we supposed to be experts boy run leaders? Well ok I am an expert, but Im still not sure about Kudu or Beaveah. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Well done, you have made sure your guys will have a lot fun. It's important to understand that most of your cubs will remember this race for the rest of their lives. We don't think about that much as adults, but every step of the race from check into the awards presentation should be performed with the greatest respect for a young boys sense of adventure. Many of your scouts have lost sleep thinking about their space derby flying 1000 mph on race night. Oh how I love that cub scouting stuff. Barry

Some adults today believe boys have a right to being in OA whole others believe that they have to earn it. The situation for each SM is explaining and justifying what they believe to those who don't agree with the results. My explination was that during my time as a youth in scouts, only 2 scouts from each troop of a each minimum age 14 could be voted by the scouts to be a candidates for OA. Arrowmen back then were the best of the best and held in higher esteem than Eagles. The problem Scoutmasters face today is that the number of scouts who don't get selected are in a minority and stick out. When I was a scout, the winners where the minority which allowed each individual looser to hide in the majority. Somethings just shouldn't have changed. Barry

>>But when you see it works, the change is worth it.

Its kind of hard to really see your situation because I think a lot of it is based from the emotions of what you want as a SM and what you are getting. Let me just say that old scoutmasters hanging around a little too close is common. You are certainly not the first. That being said, it really is your move on how you want to go forward. The other folks are happy with the present situation because nobody is forcing them to accept something different. As a SM, I had a very strong presence in our troop as do most Scoutmasters in most successful troops. The SM replacing me recognized his challenge and asked me out to lunch about three months before he took over. He knew two years before that he was the next SM and Im sure he was concerned that my presence would prevent him from being the kind of SM he want to be. He told me at the lunch that I was a tough act to follow, and he felt he needed some space to develop confidence to be a good SM. He politely asked me to step away from the troop meetings for six months so he could get his feet planted as SM of our troop. I think what he asked took great courage. You have a choice, either get used to the way things are and not be frustrated by them, or confront those things that are frustrating you and find a resolution. Personally I think a good SM must be ambitious and bold because no matter how the troop performs or what the scouts get from the program, the SM will be held responsible. Lets face it, the SM is the gatekeeper of the vision for the program. If the SM isnt the gatekeeper or protector of the vision, then who is? The job requires a somewhat aggressive person. However I also feel the SM must be the MOST humble person in the room. The SM sets the example of doing what is right for the scouts. The SM must have the presence of being noble for protecting the scouts from all other outside interference. A good SM will admit when they are wrong. In fact a good SM will admit they are wrong more than they are right. Thats OK because a ship requires many corrections to reach its destination. If you are to contribute to the program and you want to be the SM, you need to shape it so that the program fits your style. But if you are unwilling to do that without confronting those interferences that are holding your vision back, maybe you arent right for the job. At the same time your previous SM sounds like a pretty good guy. He sounds like a valuable resource and partner for the program, but at least for right now, not as ASM. I imagine that if you approach him frankly with the respect he deserves, he will not only agree with you, but help you as best as he can. As I said, your situation isnt new, but you will have to figure out if you are willing to do what it takes to make the changes so that you can be the SM you think you can be. If not, than you need to except the situation for what it is and serve with a happy heart. I wish luck on your decision, Scoutmastering is extremely challenging and extremely rewarding. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Well I agree with Kudu that program is the number one cause of success, at least it is for us. Let me restate that, outdoor advemture and camping is the key to our program. I also think the boy run part or our program contributed a lot to our success. But one may be a result of the other. So if you can compare advancement to outdoors program, that would be some useful data. But, it could be hard to see because a fun outdoor adventure program will lead to scouts participating in more troop activities, includeing advancement. Keep up the good work gathering data, we all can benefit from what you learn. Barry

>>This event just might possibly be the single coolest recruiting event for the troops that I have ever seen. Far better than Scout show put on each year, and more impressive than recruiting drives.

This is my favorite derby as well, space derbies only require a potato peeler to carve the shape and they are easy to paint as well. Its much more about looks than speed for the scouts. But Space Derbies take better planning to run a lot of rockets in an evening. We had a lot of dads around for winding the rocket propellers to keep things moving. I think the secret with rubber bands is having a lot of spares and refitting as they break, which happens a lot. As for why some do better than others, its all about "Weight". Usually the lightest derbies will be in the finals. But the races also depend a lot of the rubber bands. Barry

I admire you Tampa for trying to use Troopmaster as a tool to gain insight in your programs progress, but I think it doesnt provide near enough data. Weve discussed in the forum that National acquired data thru the 80s that showed scouts who earned first class in one year was more likely to stay in the program several years. That data motivated National to start the FCFY program we have today. What the data didnt show was if the troops where scouts earned first class in one year were just better programs. I found that scouters with limited experience tended to judge their program success by the number of new scouts and ranks. The more experience scouters tended to look less at direct numbers and more about program quality. Both are valuable trends to follow, but there are too many independent variables that can affect each unit. Our troop averaged between 20 to 30 new scouts a year the ten years I was there, which sounds really great on paper. But we were also loosing more than 50% of those new scouts in their first six months the first few years of our program. It was interesting that council was impressed with our growing numbers because as long as your new scout numbers are higher than the out going scout numbers, you look good on paper. However, we saw the huge loss of new scouts as a big problem and worked to improve the overall program. The irony is we wanted to stay a small boy run troop. By fixing our short comings we lost fewer scouts, but we also became the bigger troop that we didnt want. Watch out what you wish for, you may get more than you expect. Barry

>>If done correctly, the learning curve will be cut expotentially.