Eagledad

>>A couple days later he does this stuff again--the kid is cruel--and I talk to him. He lies so sweetly to my face and I start to get mad. He smiles some more and I realize that he realized that he knows how to push my button.

I agree with everything you said TT. As you are pointing out, we learn from last years struggles to make the next year better. After all most good scout leaders started out as parents just volunteering a couple hours a week. Even the best of them have to be trained. LOL Barry

>>Hope you enjoyed Disney!!!!

>>So, when your unit goes to summer camp do you allow parents to attend or is it only SM and ASMs? How about committee members, can they attend? Where do you draw the line?

Hi all, we just got back from a wonderful family vacation. All our kids are grown so these trips are more about family rebonding than the fun vacation activities. Like scouts, the activities are just an excuse to be together. I guess because I no longer have little ones to hold hands with in the crowds or to hold and lay their head on my shoulder when they get tired, I enjoy watching other young families on their vacations. Something about the sparkle in the eyes of a child when they are about to experience the next ride at the amusement park. Something about the excitement of parents watching their children laugh. There was one family with two toddlers asleep on the bus ride to their hotel. They clearly had a great day, but all the excitement had caught up and now it was the struggle to get everyone home and bed. Between the two folded strollers, the bags of souvenirs and sleeping children, they didn't have enough hands to manage a quick exit off the bus. So when the bus stopped at their stop, I grabbed a stroller without saying anything and help them off the bus. Dad gave me a clear gaze of why and thank you at the same time. I responded "been there and done that" as I got back on the bus. I turned to looked out the window as the bus was driving away and saw both mom and dad waving at me in thanks. That was very nice. Anyway, the next day we were walking through another amusement park when I saw a park employee point to the shoe of a Webelos age boy. The whole family looked down where the employee was pointing an saw his untied shoe. The immediate response was not the webeloes age boy stopping to bend down and tie his shoe, it was mom letting go of the toddler sister to bend down and tie little Bobby's shoe for him. My first thought was little Bobby is ready for a troop so we can wean him off his mom. That's what we do, we teach eleven year old boys how to stop and tie their own shoe. We teach a simple independence that prepares them to be responsible adults. It's not that mom is being a bad parent, she is just on the inside unable to see the big picture. She is a mom and tying shoes is what moms do. It's the boy who needs to show mom he is becoming a man and needs some room. Its kind of funny how summer camp discussions of home sickness on forums are generally focus on the scout. But I learned from being a scout leader and parent that the parents are suffering from home sickness as much as their son. In fact, it's usually the parents who cause much of the problem by telling little Bobby how much they will miss him, how much little sister will miss him, how his friends will miss him, and even how much Rover will miss him. We eventually started working with the parents a few weeks before camp to instead talk to their on about his adventures and fun he was going to have. We started preparing mom and dad for their home sickness so that they all could enjoy his time away at camp. Once they understood it was something the whole family suffered and not just their son, they knew how to del with summer camp preperation better a we had a lot less home sickness problems. A scouts first summer camp is his most important because that for most scouts is there first real separation from the mom and dad link. Summer camp is their first real experience in independence and first real experience of independent growth. It's healthy and it's at the right time in the boys life. I explain this to the parents so they understand and hopefully encourage for their son to have the experience. And for themselves to start getting used to their son growing toward being a man a little step at a time. So that's why we are here. Scouting was started so that we help all the little Bobby's learn to stop and tie his own shoe before mom's instinct does it for him. Little Bobby has a long way to go before he leaves mom and dad for his own life, but we can help the family prepare for that day by the little things he does in scouting. And maybe the difference we make from our time that we give is that little Bobby will stop and tie little sisters shoe just to makes moms day a little bit easier. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Wow

Hi Mrface Welcome to the forum. Lots of good stuff here when you clear away the the chaff. You're doing it wrong. If the scouts are paying attention, they are having fun. You need to go to the Cub forum and ask how to making pack meeting fun and exciting. When you are doing it right, the scouts are standing more than sitting, yelling and cheering more than listing patiently, laughing and looking forward to the next skit. Evauate all your meetings, every time you see scouts talking to their buddy, they are likely bored, so, change what you are doing. Put boring announcements in news letters. Shorten award ceremonies by presenting them by age, not dens. Do lots of cheers that requires scouts to stand and yell. Only sing songs that are fun for kids, not adults. Tell lots of jokes. You will know when you are doing it right because your scouts will be exhausted. So before you go and try to change the parent's parenting skills, change your meeting. It's a lot easier and more fun. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>I am actually Portuguese-Irish-German with some American Indian and Hawaiian thrown in.

>>God bless Merlin!

>>If, contrary to the Troop Method, you start with the Patrol as the primary unit of Scouting, and live up to Baden-Powell's and Green Bar Bills' minimum standard of at least one Patrol Hike per month away from the other Patrols, the SPL, and the adult leaders, then you should want your Troop's best leaders as your Patrol Leaders, because they are the Scouts you must trust with the safety of your boys without adult supervision. If your SPL is your Troop's best leader, why leave him back at camp with the adults?

Well I'm of a different opinion. If the long range vision of the troop is going to use an SPL, then I would, and have, used an SPL with one Patrol. Its hard enough for adults and scouts to adjust to major changes in the troop that they can't control, developing a program around what you expect the future troop to eventually look like is just that much less to adjust. NOW NOW, that being said, you would see very little difference in a single patrol with the SPL to the single patrol troop without the SPL. That's how I did it and it worked fine. Barry

Plastic spiders on sleeping bag? CC never did figure out who did it. Barry

There was an article a few years ago about an incident that took place somewhere in the United Kingdom. A woman who was part of a group of African-Americans intending to tour the county for two weeks was asked by customs to declare her citizenship after they landed. She proudly responded African-American. The short story is that it took a representative from the American Embassy to convince the women that she was on the next plane back to the United States if she continued insisting she was African-American. Apparently a Senator got an ear full when she got back. Barry

>>Ya don't care for me Barry and thats fine.....

>>Be wary of posters with no numbers.....

>>Has anyone had experience with a really large pack? How many kids? How did it function?>Has anyone been in a unit that had a successful split?>Is there an official policy on max unit size?>Can a CO have more than one pack?>If we get to 100 boys, should we really be thinking 3 packs and then be able to serve even more kids? There is a logic about one in each school.>When I was a cub we only had three grades in the pack, so naturally packs should be bigger now with five grades. Has anyone been around long enough to contrast that?

>>The Mom's seem to be very angry and saying it is bullying and the boys should get kicked out of the Troop.

I should add to forget letters, handle all serious matters with parents in person. Barry

I used it successfully in Webelos for my parents to take on the activity badges. However, through the years nothing works better than asking face to face. Maybe it takes a special person or someone with baby blue eyes to do that, but I am rarely ever turned down. Barry

We handled this by requiring a parent to attend the meetings and campouts with their son. It solves the problem one way or another every time. Barry

>>Who should discipline the boy(s) the SM or the SPL/PLC?

Don't spend a lot of time recruiting at the booth, get the parents phone numbers so you can call them later where you can spend a lot of time selling the program. Use that list to creat your dens and find willing leader. If all goes well, you can even get the leaders trained before school starts. Then when the families come in to the recruiting night in September, you just check them off the list and tell them you already have them set up in a den with a leader. I think the recruitment booth is the best recruting tool packs have if they can get the numbers to most of the scouts' families. Its a bit of work calling for a couple days, but it takes the load off in September and the starts the pack running at the begining of school instead of spending a couple of weeks recruiting, buiding dens, and getting leaders trained. Barry

I confess that as a scout leader, I did it wrong more than I did it right. But overall our programs were very successful and what made us successful was trying to change those things that led us to failure. I ALWAYS considered the comments from parents to determine if there was something else I could do to make the station better and most of the time I changed something about me or the program. But I know there times when our style of scouting conflicts with the parents goals for their son. But let's look at it this way, "Parenting" is the hardest job in the world. Wouldn't you agree? No parent gets it all right. Parents want the best for their kids future, so usually their choices in the activities they allow their sons are noble in nature. Who are we as scout leaders to say otherwise? To try and get scout leaders to think on level ground with parents, I taught at SM Specific to imagine each role model that a boy meets in his life as a puzzle piece of a puzzle his parents created to develop the best possible man for a best possible future. The scout leader is just one or two pieces among many dozens. Scout leaders are just part of a big team the parent have assembled to carve out that man. That is a pretty tough job and maybe parents deserve a little more respect for it. We ought to feel honored that we were selected to be part of that team, that puzzle. The best we can do for our scouts is give them the best possible program that gets them to our vision. And to be up front as possible to the parents about what our vision is. Give them the information to make their choices for their sons. Their choices may not agree with our vision, but who is to say that our vision is more noble than theirs. If their goals don't fit ours, we don't take it personally, we kindly help them find their way even if that is to suggest another program. It's not about right or wrong, it's only about fit. Our troop is one size of shoe. Not all boys fit that size. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

I was the one who had dinner with Oaktree and his son this week. My only regret is I didn't read my Email earlier so we could have more time talking about scouting stuff. I know it sounds kind of silly, but you know scouting goes deep in the soul when two grown men who never met before stand for a few hours accross the street of the Oklahoma University campus mainly talking about scouting. I must say Oaktree, I also very much enjoyed watching a proud dad smile as he talked about his kids. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Parents will do what they want and say they didn't know....