Eagledad

>>Disagree with the term of volunteer service..

Without the the BSA, there would be no scouting. Those of us who have worked on the membership side of things understand the struggle of older scout programs like Venturing and Venture Patrols. In general new Venturing Crews and Venture Patrols are started by adults who want to experience other areas of the BSA program mainly because they are bored or feel restricted. My observation is three out of four of those programs disolve in four years. I believe Cubs and Troops have a much record because their programs have a much better structure that keeps them functioning with the passion that fuels the older scout programs. Without the basic structure of the Cubs and Scouts provided by the BSA, those individual units would only last as long as the willingness of the adults, then it spud be gone. While I do believe there is some of what Base describes going on, I don't agree it is as much of a problem as he does. One only has to do little research to learn that large churches have more enduring programs than small churches. Experts point out that the average volunteer of any organization gives less than 20 months of service. A program that relies on volunteers to function is a very difficult program to maintain and it requires a large organization to do it. Anybody know of a Badon Powell Troop in your area? Barry

We never did a free weekend like that while I was SM I guess because it just sounds boring. I know of a few troops that free weekends. The only way I would consider the idea is on our patrol campout months but even then they still had some kind theme. The troop does do one Troop outing a year on a military base where we generally sleep indoors (1 year it was inside a C5A Cargo Airplane), but those weekend is usually structured by the folks on base, so I wouldnt call it a free weekend. But our troop does two things pretty well that would prevent scouts wanting a free weekend campout. They plan fun campout themes and the scouts schedule a lot of free time on all their campouts. It is not unusual for our scouts to be jumping in the sack before lights out because they are exhausted from the day. We even encourage a lot of free time at summer camp so the scouts aren't stuck in activities they aren't enjoying. We takes lots of balls, bats, frisbees and games so that scouts can find something that interest them. I think back on one weekend campout where the PLC planned a Hiking, Biking, and Canoeing theme. The Patrols had to move a distance of five miles using bikes, hiking and canoes on a lake. AND, they also planned 15 stops where the scouts had to demonstrate scout skills. A week before the campout, a Pack of 13 Webelos and their parents asked if they could camp with us that month. Turns out that that the patrols and Webelos finished the 5 mile course by 2:00PM, so they had free time until dinner where they just did a lot more biking, hiking and canoeing the rest of the day. All the scouts and adults were so physically and mentally exhausted the next morning that the PLC cancelled the usual Sunday activities to rest. The Webelos and their parents didnt say a word as they were leaving the camp and I was afraid we scared them off. But it turned out they had so much fun that they told other packs about our troop and we got 30 new scouts that year. Any theme can be fun if the planning is creative enough. Our troop has done several night competition campouts where they do scout skills competitions most of the night. Not all that different from doing it during the day, but doing at night is different and fun. Weve done a couple campouts where the troop hiked onto a simulated accident where the scouts had to treat adults and older scouts with fake injuries. Sure its a great lesson and application of scout skills, but it's also a lot of fun. I think our guys are having to much fun doing scouting stuff to plan a free weekend. Barry

Wow, you guys are asking some good questions that this forum has chewed on many times. Beaverah is right that doing a search will reward you with more discussions than you could possible read in a week. This is one of my favorite subjects, but I will try to keep my initial response short so you can ask questions. I first like to get adult leaders to point their focus on the objectives of a new scout program and not think of it as just another process in the SM Handbook. The BSA doesnt tell you that the main objective of the New Scout Program is getting your new scouts up to speed as quickly as possible so that they feel confident to have fun in the troop. Why, because the BSA looses more boys from scouting in the first six months of joining the troop than any other time or age in scouting. The reason is the young boys of this age go from a world of adults holding their hands and making all their decisions, to a new world of making their own decisions and having to trust other boys for their safety and enjoyment in the troop program. Their first campout is probably the most intimidating (scary) experience these boys will have had so far in their young lives. So you, the adult, need to figure out how to get the young babied boys to confident scouts who can trust other boys to help them have fun in the program. That means you need to keeps adults just close enough so the new scouts are not totally terrified, but far enough away so they develop a relationship and trust to depend on the other scouts. Experience shows that you have about six months to transform mommas boy into a confident excited scout longing to go camping with his patrol. Otherwise you will likely loose him in the second six months. Now that you know the why, there are a lot of us here with experiences to help you figure out the how. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>> I'm thinking about getting a "Tats Are Trashy" tattoo. But WHERE?

I kind of agree on functionality, the one activity you won't see much of the uniform in our group is on high adventure trips. But one year, there was a crew at Philmont of older scouts that wore the full uniform during their whole 90 something mile trip. These guys were elitist backpackers and made everything seem easy and perfect, even singing and chanting during much of their hike. Most or our crew were also very experienced backpackers and could easily keep up with these guys, but we all admitted they looked very impressive. I am not suggesting using the uniform method like it is the only method, but sometimes we might make it to easy to not use it. Barry

>>I tried to narrow the focus of this thread specifically to the BSA Pants. I want rationale that makes sense to the boys. And I think EagleDad has given me the best ammo so far.. So I'm leaning towards any OD Green pants within a certain color range. This would legitimize cargo pants, wool trousers, and many hiking shorts. And it might actually get us more uniform in appearance.

>>I was thinkin' the other day that in actual fact, Hillary Clinton has made a superb Secretary of State. She's been marvelously astute, respectful of other nations but firm, and is a master of manipulating people usin' their underlying interests. Here we have the whole world, even the Arab world, siding with the U.S. over Syria and condemning the Russians and the Chinese. And in the same month, we have the EU takin' the lead on pushing punitive sanctions against Iran. That's just masterful.

>>A lot depends on what yeh feel you are tryin' to accomplish with the Uniform Method. I think the units that don't have a good sense of their goals are the ones that have the most trouble with uniforming.

>>I will eventually be SM, but I am in no rush.... I will be kinda nice having a bit of time to myself.

We've had one for years because storms in Oklahoma develop fast and often in the Spring. It once save one of our patrols that was camping on their own. They were able to get out of the area just before the tornado dropped near by. As cell phones started getting more popular, spouses would call and warn us of something developing. I'm sure the smart phones are doing the brunt of the work now. BArry

OK, thanks guys. Barry

I would be happy with just seat belt laws if they would get rid of the airbomb law, I'm sorry I mean airbag law. While the airbag might save a few more lives over the seat belts (and I'm not convinced they do), the number of injuries that require medical attention caused by airbags has multiplied by more than ten. If your airbag goes off even while the car is not moving, you will likely need medical treatment, especially if you are wearing glasses. And that doesn't include the cost of fixing damages to the car caused by just the airbags. And who gets sued for these damages, the car makers who are forced to bend at the governments will. Nobody in there right mind would force a person to drive with a loaded bomb pointing at their face except the government. You have to remember the original intention of the air bomb was to replace seat belts. So it's original data was compared to a no seat belt car. we should at the very least have a choice of switching the bomb off if we willingly give in to wearing the seatbelt. Barry

Rjscout is correct. How is a car lengthened from the original block of wood? Barry

Crossovers are kind of hard. Troops will do what the packs want, but they usually have the calender planned so they can get new scouts up to speed before summer camp. Our troop would liked to have all the new scouts by the middle of February and plan around that. Packs typically try to program around Blue and Gold, but Dens a lot of the time have their own agenda as well, so it can get messy. After I had a few years as a troop leader and Pack Leader, I tried to get the pack to schedule crossovers and AOLs at Pack meetings and leave the Blue and Gold to just plain fun pack awards. Pack meetings are easier for Troops to send a representative for the crossovers. Pack meetings are easier for the CM to add a crossover or AOL if one suddenly pops up later in the year. We had years where our pack had 30 Webelos in three dens crossing over into six troops. And, several of the families didn't pick a troop until just a few minutes before the crossover. But you know, I remember those days fondly. Barry

While I was a scout in the 60s and 70s, I wore the scout shirt and hat my dad wore in 1940. I got a lot of complements from the adults. Sadly, my mom gave them away while I was in college. Barry

>>My lab has 5 such instruments and all of them read exactly the standards accurately.

>>Sounds like the District Activity Operations Committee should invest $60 for 5 oz of NIST approved field calibration weights, and then have them available for loan to Packs, and for the District PW event as well.

Well TT, we are not there, so of course you are going to have to feel that one out. I am one of those who likes to have solutions ready to propose when I present problems. In the case of scouts, I like to start conversations with parents something like ""Oh by the way, this is not issue here because we are taking care of it, but I wanted to just keep you in the loop of the situation."". You are not really asking for their help or even getting them involved, you are just having a discussion of how Bobby is doing in the Troop. And he is doing fine. You have a tough situation, I'm sure you will do fine because your heart seems to be your guide. Barry

>>You just can't predict one set of scales over another.

Yes, and Yes. All our scouts knew that there are no secrets between scouts and adults hidden from parents. I have countless stories of scouters getting in trouble by holding back from the parents. In fact, one big blow up occurred when the parents learned the SM held from them that their son once brought porn on a campout. You are part of the parents team who works together for the good of their son. Even if the parents don't appreciate your standards, they should still respect them. More often than not, I have found that scouts with parents who don't give their son boundaries appreciate the boundaries of the troop because it gives them a small sense of security they dont get at home. Barry

>>yeah, one gay man does not speak for every gay man.

>>Beavah - the problem with your recommendation is that our law is full of various legal definitions wrapped around the word marriage. This includes inheritance, forced testimony, hospital visitation rights, taxation, etc. The simplest path would be massive "cut and replace" function where "Marriage" in the civil code is replaced by "Civil Union" or some other such term.

It's not business, it's abortion in an election year. It's purely politics to firm up the base. Barry

The difference between a push mobile and a cub mobile is the key word push. Our pack looked into this because we really like the idea of people power and team coordination in a competition. Believe it or not, it was our budget that made our decision. The extra materials required to build a car in the plans for a car capable of being pushed required more money. I had always hoped that our Troop would have tried the push mobile races for both fun and for developing pack relationships, but I think we just forgot about it. Imagine a troop sponsoring a District Webelos Pushmobile Derby day. And even invite your favorite pack over for fun during one of their pack meetings. That would certianly be the coolest troop in the district. Barry