Eagledad

Hi All. I heard a lecture that put all my experiences and wisdom from scouting in a nutshell. This isn't a thread on god, or God, and scouting. This is about the scoutmaster setting the example of servant leadership by being a servant leader. Our definition of Servant Leadership here is Servant leadership is a leadership philosophy built on the belief that the most effective leaders strive to serve others. It's an easy leadership style to understand, but much harder to do because servant leadership requires the humility to learn the desires and needs of the followers, and then serve them toward those needs and desires. Christians have the example of Jesus preaching that the one who seeks the most must serve the least. The problem with leaders these days is most don't serve with humility and they don't have a consistent vision to agree on. We have often discussed here that scouts learn by watching, not by hearing. For a youth to change their philosophy of behavior, they must observe the behavior and believe it is one worth duplicating. Humans of the scout age don't permanently choose to change a behavior from intimidations or lectures. They must accept the behavior is better than the one they have. One of the biggest obstacles troops struggle to over come is developing a culture where the scouts trust and respect the adults enough to believe their behavior is worth watching and duplicating. That respect takes time and requires a lot of effort of humility from the adults. But, if the adults behavior is consistent and they provide unselfish reasons for the direction of the troop activities, they will buy into it because their choices in the activities generally make them like themselves better in those activities. That may sound selfish, but the prepubescent mind is paranoid of danger, so changing behaviors requires changing to watch what they feel is a safer behavior. Which is one reason why threats of punishment or sway of lecture generally doesn't have much affect on personal growth. Scouts need to watch safe-decision-making behavior to desire it. As for giving scouts a direction to develop their activities, I found, through my years working with Scoutmasters, that very few of them have vision. And without vision, the Scoutmaster doesn't have a rudder to hold course. That is OK, the program can still be fun and rewarding, just not a life changing experience. Scouts in successful scout-run type troops generally observe two visions from the adults, specifically the SM. They see a belief in a higher spiritual power, and moral direction for behavior. It's not that scouts are looking for a godly person to lead, they are just respecting a leader who doesn't believe they are the supreme authority. How is this person any better than any other adult? The main reason god is mentioned in Scouting in general as a moral action for scouts is that god is the highest authority and gives unit leaders more power to encourage a moral changing program. Kind of a Good Cop Bad Cop relationship. God sets the rules, the SM just guides the program with them. The traits in the Scout Law are the righteous actions of Scout. They are not the opinions of just another blow-hard adult. All actions by anyone in the unit can be held accountable by god. If not the units leaders, then the family. A scout is supposed to learn how to judged their personal decisions toward others with the Scout Law. So, the Scoutmaster who credits (in words or actions) a higher moral authority for their application of the Scout law is showing submission to the higher authority. Servant Leadership starts at the very top. Also, the cultural vision sets the direction of the program activities for all the scouts. That doesn't mean the Scoutmaster lectures the vision over and over. The Scoutmaster consistently judges the actions and activities of the program and relates a tone of direction. And, Scoutmaster's behavior goes far with setting the tone. I had a little time on a campout and walked over to watch the scouts play Capture The Flag. I was in the shadows, so they couldn't see me. When a new scout on his first campout started cursing, a senior scout said, without an interruption to his actions in the game, "we don't cuss here." As far as I knew, we never talked about cussing in the troop. When I asked about it with my son, he said nobody cusses in the troop publicly dad. School yes, but not here." The leader is the gatekeeper of the moral actions of the community. Good or bad, the actions of the community come from the top. Whether the vision is freedom to make choices or a strict environment of rules and guidelines, it generally comes from the leader. In this discussion, the Scoutmaster. And he was right, we adults didn't cuss. And that culture bled into the scouts culture. It was a profound moment for me. When I was the district Scoutmaster course instructor, I also invited Troop Committee Chairs because I wanted them to understand what the patrol method program was, and I instructed them to take responsibility for picking the right Scoutmaster. Or maybe righteous Scoutmaster. A leader with vision and humility of the higher power makes all the difference in the world. Well, I have rambled enough. I am hoping for some discussion because the subject of Scoutmaster servant leadership can be complicated. We don't seem to have a lot of experienced guidance lately on this forum, although there are few here with really good wisdom. The forum has been dominated by the nonprogram struggles from outside interference and forum membership has dwindled. Maybe the scouters in the trenches can change that trend. If scouting is to keep going, the wisdom of experience would go a long way helping the present and future adults run a great program. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

The little red wagon is next. Barry

Well done. When I was the district SM Specific course trainer, I preached for units to stop splitting their troop for the summer camp experience. Summer camp is the best and safest place for youth to practice independent decision making and pump up their patrol method development. We averaged almost 100 scouts (95%) at summer camp because they enjoy the experience so much. We typically put the adults in a separate camp site to reinforce the scouts independence. The SPL is the hardest working person in the troop because has all the decision making responsibilities. The only decisions the adult make are the one that require an adult signature. We pay the SPLs camp fees. You’re going the right direction and your scouts will appreciate it. Barry

We live in strange times. Seems that false accusations is becoming a common method of acting out at other people. My high school teacher son says the schools deal with it almost daily. And while many of the accusations are are obviously untrue at the time they are reported, they have to be investigate to show no bias. Forum moderators even have to deal with some of this stuff. Barry

Welcome, and have a great time. Take it easy though, cubs is 5 years long and tends to burn out even the best Eagles. I know of two active Eagle cub leaders that started with the vision of becoming a scoutmaster only to bow out from burnout at their sons crossover. Pace yourself because we need experienced adult leaders in the Troops. Barry

This is such and inspiring story. Thank you God. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

It was normal for me. I typically didn't sleep for two nights before a campout and at least a week before summer camp or high adventure. While we share the program with the ASMs, JASMs, committee, and other resources, the SM is still responsible for results. Even though everything is in place the way it should be, the SM suffers in the hope that scouts come home better than they left. Not just in safety, but in growth. However, on the other side, my wife will tell you there were many nights I didn't sleep because of something great that happened. I just couldn't help laying there with a big smile on my face. Whether it was a great meeting, campout or just a routine activity, there is immeasurable satisfaction (joy) from a great day of scouting. I have no advice other than keep doing what you are doing because the program only gets better. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Well said. I remember back when this forum was the go-to place to learn more games. The Patrol Method and Open Discussion areas usually had at least 3 subjects going on at the same time discussing such ideas. Ah....the good oh days when 800 scouters were logged in. Barry

I believe Uniform and disciplining bad behavior are the two most challenging parts of a scout run program for adults. Adults seem to have an unbalanced passion for these two cases and typically takeover the scouts responsibility to get what they want. I certainly don't agree that the uniform is a main reason a scout doesn't want to go to meetings in a healthy program. The uniform is a great character builder because it clearly defines a scout's right or wrong choice. It also challenges them to define when the uniform should be worn appropriately. Youth today live in a world of mediocrity and don't know how to find the best of themselves. I'm not a fan of how advancement has been used by adults to push their ideal program, but advancement is a method for a scout to learn about their capabilities, while not fearing the differences of others. Every rank should be worn with pride. And it challenges the group to respect each other fairly as the Oath and Law defines. I very much agree. This goes back to what I said about adults impressing their opinion on the scouts when they want it their way. And, I found that a troop where the scouts deal directly with bad behavior has a lot less bad behavior. Many adults think bad behavior is only an adult responsibility, and don't realize they are leaving the scouts dealing it without tools to stop it. Dealing with bad behavior is a challenge for even the adults, so if the program gives everyone the responsibility to confront and deal with it, then the behavior is usually nipped in the bud. But, I admit giving scouts the freedom to learn from their mistakes takes practice, and the humility that adults may do it wrong more than the scouts. Yes, the scouts will gain personal growth, but what does that mean. I once watched a troop scouts bully another troop during the camp volley ball terminate tournament. I watched the scoutmaster smile with his approval with every bad action. What kind of personal growth were those scouts getting. Adults don't have to be the wisdom of personal growth if they just teach the scouts to grade their decisions on the oath and law. Oh, we don't have to preach and preach oath and law, but it we start balancing the choices being made by the oath and law, the scouts will eventually get it. They don't talk about it, but they do learn to balance their decisions. Barry

First year I was Cubmaster I asked a den of Webelos why they chose the troop they were just about to cross over to. They said That troop had the best game at the meeting. A treat would be even better.😀 Barry

Great idea. The problem with structure is that it gets stale, predictable and boring. Young adults hate boring. Move a meeting to a different location like a park for some orientating or fire building. Bring ingredients for smores. Bring backpacks and take a mile hike to review packing techniques and weight. Hotdogs? Just figure out ways to change it up. Teach the scouts how to be spontaneous by bringing a local fire truck to the meeting. A few minutes of fire safety? I don’t know, make it fun. Barry

We! Barry

I love this idea. But, you can tell me, haven't you (me) imagined that somehow you (me) was selected as part of a boots-on-the-ground team ofscouters teaching a new class of National Leaders. I (we) would do a very good job. We scouts have great imaginations. Barry

Makes sense. But, just be aware, a new title can create a new expectation. The older scout program success is directly relational on the success of the younger scout program. Not the other way around. Don't let the new addition change the younger scout program. I've seen it many times. All of a sudden the mindset of the younger scout program sees itself as just a stepping stone to the romantic older scout program. Don't let that mindset creep in to the unit culture. Keep the younger scout program as romantic as the older scout program and all will go well. Barry

My observation is the opposite of your read. The specialized older scout components of the troops are the programs in our district that have a life expectancy of 3 to 5 years. The stand-alone units that don't rely on troops for membership remain active for much longer periods of time. Why do you feel your troop needs a separate older scout program? If your older scouts aren't leaving the program, you must be doing something right. Barry

I agree friendships definitely are the reason why scouts keep coming back. But, after training adults for several years, I feel the struggle is getting the troop adults to trust that they don't have to follow the push for an advancement type of program that they keep getting told to produce. I don't hear it as much now so much, but "First Class in the First Year" FCFY was the montra adults were hearing over and over back in the 90's. I was called an extremist for pushing back. Troops were then told by council to look at Venturing to fix their older scout membership problems. I don't blame Council, they were only pushing what they were being trained to push by National. But, Troops are pushed to turn into a First Class factory, and then suffering the consequences of a boring program that pushes both the adult leaders and older scouts to run from. Older scout programs require a passion to work and mentor with young adults, not just activities that entertain everyone for a weekend every couple of months. I counseled several troop leaders on their older scout membership problems and while they agreed that their troop FCFY program was boring and needed to change, they needed a plan to follow to do that and there really isn't one. Oh sure, I helped them some, but the truth is that district units become the program that district training pushes. And unless District has the knowledge and courage to be different, district training teaches units what council tells them to teach. So, being different is challenging in of itself. I don't have a real good answer for how to fix the older scout program at a national level because National has never shown a willingness to be open to ideas of how to approach these kinds of problem. Barry

We did fine without adding another administrative step in the scouts adventures. Barry

We've had many discussions around this subject and there are a lot of opinions to the Scoutmaster's role in the process. I personally believe that the SM should verify the MB Counselor and move on. It was a little easier for me because our council used white cards that only require one SM signature at the beginning of the scout's quest. The two signatures on the Blue Cards don't make sense to me, and set the SM's state of mind of being more involved. But, our district SM's had to be corrected in training that the signature is required at the beginning, not the end of the scout's required tasks. Personally I believe scouts learn more skills in the administrative requirements of the badge and contacting the councilor than any other part of the advancement program. Barry

I personally believe that scouts under the age 14 should not be leaders of groups. Their pre pubescents maturity isn't developed enough to process the lessons from the mistakes. As you said, they loose confidence and start wanting to stay home. I do agree that a new troop with new scouts do require some hand holding. But, not much. My recommendation for new Scoutmasters of new troops with young scouts was do only 3 month leadership stents to prevent burnout. The point the others are making here is don't loose the the foundation of developing growth through making mistakes in the program. Once a troops starts down the path, it's hard to change. Barry

This is an interesting post. My high school teacher son was just telling me how many suicidal students have approached him for help. He takes them immediately to see the councilor but sits with them while they wait. He is glad they trust him, but struggles with the number. Most of the students that approach him are in pain from loneliness. Covid certainly hasn't helped but he says that social media is crew. But, what really surprised me was how many of his students have gone to prison for murder. He said that in most cases, you would have never guessed they could do that. Which I guess is your point. Barry

I agree that developing creative habits is certainly part of the challenge. Creativity is a skill many youth don't practice before they join the troop and patrol method expects a lot from it. I also think the administrative tasks can overwhelm the adventure. I find that if the patrol meeting (patrol corners and PLC meeting) are more about planning and less about talking or learning a skill for the next adventure, they get tedious and boring. The challenge is finding the balance. And the scouts don't have to be moving to be interested. One meeting that my sons really liked was when we had a gun expert visit to talk about the parts of a gun and how to handle them safely. There was no activity for the scouts to hold the gun or discuss the safety. Just listening to the expert had their attention. I am sure they talked about that meeting a school the next day. Scouting is hard. Barry

We start by asking why we want Venturing. Patrol Method scouting survives because the ultimate goal is to build mature person of character. Oh, there are several ways to say that, but the BSA Mission is building ethical and moral decisions makers. That is a foundation worth building. And, it's not just a noble goal, scouting has a tool for getting there called patrol method. The struggle with Venturing is that 90% of it's members are motivated by the romance of adventure. Which, is silly to me because our troop did most of the adventure that local Venturing Crews do around here. Adventure is just a type of temporary adrenalin high. What is left when the scouts come off the adrenalin high? What next? The thing that keeps older scouts in scouting is the community of where they can challenge to one self. Adventure is just the arena where the young adults go to find the challenge. The challenge is making one self better so as to feel good about being that person. The troop does that through the challenges of making decisions about other people in the patrols and troop. The community of the patrol and troop is constant that keeps scouts coming back for the challenge. I find that most Venturing Crews are less about challenging one self to make better decisions and more about the boring actions of planning the next adventure. There needs to be more about meeting to plan the next adventure. Several years back the DE approached me about starting a Venturing Crew in our troop because our one troop had more scouts 14 and older than any other unit (troop or crew) in the Council. Our council is almost half the state of Oklahoma. What he didn't understand was that the attraction to our troop as an older scout was that our culture treated them as adults. When you think about where a 15 year old can go to be treated equally to a 30 or 40 year old, you start to understand the attraction. Our troop challenge each scout to grow into a more mature person through the actions and decisions of their responsibilities during the activities. I once polled all our scouts 14 and older as to why they stayed in our troop. I got all sorts of answers, but less than 50% said it was for the adventure part of the program. And their attendance to higher level adventure treks supported that data. Many young adults want adventure, but most just want to be around other people who respect them to be adults. Venturing is coming up short in scouting because it doesn't provide a community for scouts to be adults. It needs more than adventure. I understand this perception because I was in a Scuba Diving Explorer Post for 3 years. I rarely dove much because most of their trips were more expensive than I could afford. But, there was an expectation of me by the group to act like and adult, and I thrived on that expectation. We had a lot of other activities besides Diving in other parts of the world to keep us busy. I was also the president of the Oklahoma State flying Club in college. I would guess that 50% of those members were not pilots. We were a busy club and many, if not most, of the activities didn't require all the members to be pilots. I can't say that the club had a noble goal of building character, But, it must have been a fun group to hang around. Our troop was successful with older scouts because it was a fun place to hang out. Venturing needs to be a place to hang out for the age group it wants to attract. Ironically, I don't think adventure is the hang out part of the program. Barry

I struggle with responses like this because they don't invite a discussion unless it is one sided. Kind of a type of censorship to me. If anyone thinks this is just a guns issue, then I believe they are coming from a political agenda perspective and don't really care about the children. Mental health should certainly be part of the discussion because who would consider the state of mind of this killer to be normal. I once listened to a psychologist on NPR. He was hired by an east coast state after the Columbine school shooting to travel and organize community meetings with parents to discuss how family dynamics can effect the mental health of youth in school. The conclusion of experts and political elites at the time was that the shooters were loners and their parents were part of the problem because they never realized their sons planning the shooting. The psychologist said he was very concerned after leading these community discussions because the parents didn't seem to want to understand their roles in a healthy family dynamics. He said the parents were so fixated on their personal lives that they were instead trying to fit their kids in the parents busy lives instead of developing a life around the whole family. That was very frightening because that was a professional who was politically liberal speaking on a NPR. Let's have a real discussion. Barry

It only works with adults who understand the big picture of how the different groups work together in the one program. Most (vast majority) of adults don’t have that big picture vision, which is why Venture Patrols and Troops Venturing Crews don’t have a good success rate. That The majority of new adult leaders don’t have a youth scouting experience adds to the challenge. I would question if the council professionals would have a working understanding of making this idea successful. Barry

Yep, there is a fine line of setting scouts up to succeed and setting them up to fail. But, there is a difference in learning from failure or becoming disillusioned from failure. Scouts have to feel the adults are their best cheer leaders, especially when they make bad decisions. I told the story about the SPL that was frustrated because he couldn't get the troop of about 30 scouts under control. He walked over to the SM watching from the other side of the room and asked what could he do. The SM asked what was the one thing in his hand that gets a scouts attention. The SPL put his sign up and the he had a new confidence in controlling the group. But, the key isn't the SM giving him a little help. The key is the SPL reached a point where he needed to learn and took the intuitive to get it. AS you said, new scouts need a lot more wisdom to start out than experienced scouts. And that will likely come from adults. But, the adults have to let the scouts push the line of annoyance (frustration) so that the scout is motivated to learn how to change the annoyance, without letting the scout go so annoyed that he just gives up. Where is that line? It changes constantly and the adults have to feel it out so that they can keep pushing the line out, but not too far out, as the scouts grows in knowledge and independence. That adults will fail as much as they succeed. But, if the scouts observe that the adults are trying to give them their independence so that the program is more fun and more rewarding, they won't mind the humble adult screw ups. Adults' have to learn and grow faster and more often than the scouts just to keep up with the scouts growth. If the adults quit pushing the line, the scouts will quit growing and the program will get boring. It's hard and frustrating, but when you watch the maturity of the troop jump forward, you will so excited that you won't sleep that night and you will be forced to sleep on the couch. The more that happens, the more you want and the more you push that line. The adults want to program where the scouts like to learn from the mistakes because they the growth makes them like themselves. That comes from them listening to their best teacher, which is their last mistake. The adults have to insure the scouts that they are in a safe to make mistakes because that is what the program is all about. And that is very hard for new adult leaders who have spent their adult life teaching their kids not to make mistakes. I learned to caution new adult visitors to speak up in a PLC meeting because they just can't help themselves. Kind of funny to watch. Stating a new troop with new scouts is the most difficult time of the troop program. So, it is important to understand the goals of the program like Vision and Aims so that they learn how the Methods get them there. I wish training taught that better. Barry