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Everything posted by Eagledad

  1. Yes, but it's easy to argue if they wanted. How many adults haven't rode a bicycle in five years, yet do they still have the skill? Does the current course change every year? And, if the adults are practicing youth protection all the time, does the "current" training have significant meaning in the field? I have deal with this same issue here at work. We take a lot of annual training that hasn't changed in 15 years, but the managers are held accountable to our participation, so we have to repeat it, over and over. And because of the anti-BSA folks we see even here on the forum, a pre-test
  2. I'm sitting here thinking about the families who struggled with funds and eventually chose to leave the program. In many cases it wasn't the funding that drove them off, it was the participation expected of the parents time. The real issue is that parents of low income families don't have a lot of time to participate or volunteer. Funds (lack of) are the easy excuse, but not the reason. I saw this a lot with Tiger families. I remember one mother who was nervous about her deaf son joining our troop. She felt compelled to participate to insure he would be safe in our program. That was desp
  3. I can't recall anyone saying that scouting was a bargain, poor choice of words. But, they will say the value of what they got from scouting is worth the price. Still, I know the cost can be intimidating. Our units, district, and council, always had scholarship funds available FOR ANYONE that wanted to participate, but was limited by their funds. If families wanted to participate, funding is there. But, in general, the families that ask for help were the ones that felt the program was worth the asking. Same goes with the families that could afford the cost. If scouting has to measured as a barg
  4. We had a similar situation in our district 25 years ago. Everyone knew about it, but they couldn’t do anything because all adults involved were consenting to the situation. The troop and charter liked the guy as a SM, so council didn’t want to get in litigation over it. Council found a reason to kick him out when someone witnesses him offering a scout a beer. Barry
  5. If the BSA is taken out, history will show it as a victim of this culture. The noble reputation won’t change and it will be talked about with envy for many years. I’ve passed along countless stories of my dads scouting adventures during WWII. I’ve heard my sons pass along mine, as well as their own. My grandkids will pass them along as well. A fitting legacy for a great program. Barry
  6. I never said you shouldn't be here, I said, "why are you here?". Meaning, what do you want from this forum? The answer is not clear to me. I wasn't attacking, I was seeking clarity. I didn't word it well, my bad. And what are your boundaries. You keep, let's say, moving the goal posts. Let's keep this simple so that we know when each know the boundary's; in one (just one) simple sentence, what do you want from this thread. Honestly, I think you will struggle with your boundaries more than us. What does that mean? Who is WE? Sounds like a scorched earth mission? Is
  7. But, your off topic post is responding to your own off topic posts. When your post are out of bounds, should you not expect opposing responses? Fuel on the Fire? Saying nothing sometime has the most positive effect in keeping the discussion strait. Barry
  8. It's a scary world for kids today. I heard a statistic that percentage of kids born in a single parent family in the 1950s was something less than a quarter of today. We had a lot of scouts who struggled in their personal lives, but as a scout leader, I found divorce by far to be the most common contributor for scouts personal suffering. Something like 50% of our nations children come from divorced parents. The statistics of the struggling behaviors for adults who were children of divorced families is heart wrenching. But, the culture just seems to keep piling on our youth. The issue wi
  9. Suggesting that the loss of scouting for future youth is not a form of moral loss to the culture (my words for abuse) is to suggest the program itself does not promote moral and character growth. That would mean that the BSA mission of " to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." is not valid. I have personally witnessed in my own personal observations of many scouts who came to scouting to get away from abusive, harmful and stressful environments in their personal lives. They craved a place w
  10. Again, I can't see it. I believe they may have data in the areas they have more direct control like the MBs. But not unit level unless the units were more forthcoming. I was told (unofficially) about 25 years ago that the biggest source of abuse in the BSA was MB counselors. Which, made sense at the time because youth protection policies where just starting to include MB counselors. I could see some better data their because counsels have a little more control at the level of the program. National could have more data, but it would surprise me. Barry
  11. All of your points may be part of the reason. My observation of the BSA bureaucratic and managing functions of the organization is that they aren't organized or efficient enough to acquire such data. How much of abuse calls are actually abuse and not just threats by parents to get their way. It's a lot. Or, how much real abuse is handled within the unit and never reported outside the unit. Again it's a lot. What one parent's definition of abuse is another parents idea of discipline. Very common in sports also. And then, how can that even be categorized? I have a great deal of experience w
  12. We learned the hard way that sometimes the best reaction to bad behavior is to quietly ask the scout to call their parents. They always made the call. Not as a punishment, but for a period of calm. Many times bad behavior (really bad decisions I guess) requires time for thought instead of instant reaction. Many of the scouts felt calling parents was a punishment. But, they also knew it was a last resort and they pushed too far. Once they were asked to make the call, there was no going back. And it wasn't just the adults, the senior scouts could make the decision. They rarely did without
  13. Yes, you are right. When parents visited our troop, I told them that the troop (troops in general) is a safe place. Most misinterpret that to mean that scouts are safe from physical and mental harm, but I explain what it really means is scouts are safe from persecution for their bad decisions. The nature of learning and maturing from wrong decisions is making wrong decisions. The challenge for the adults is accepting wrong decisions as growth toward good character, not bad character in of itself. Most adults find that a hard challenge because our parenting nature is to coach change
  14. No, not all is related to child safety. My teacher kids tell me many of the safe guards and policies are for protecting the teachers. Kids aren't stupid, they know how to take advantage of a system and some are willing. Scouting is becoming a thing of the past because the success of the program relies on trust. Even this discussion is how to undermine that process. Scouting is a practice of applying the Scout Oath and Law instead of rules and policies. The culture (or is it counter-culture) wants rules and polices. Barry
  15. More than once I took a scout home after a campout because their parents never showed up. It only happen once for that scout because it was one of the few times the parent had to meet a grumpy scoutmaster. Barry
  16. Hmm, as a former coach, I had to deal with more abuse than in scouting. You folks are thinking sexual abuse, but I think in the context of adult power over the youth. I have seen a lot of abuse, or near abuse, when coaches loose their temper at the players, But sometime flare ups are at each other, which is scary in of itself for youth. My older son quit soccer from two coaches of apposing teams got into a fist fight. And, this was in front of other parents. And it may not even be tempers, but adults applying their power on the players by just yelling to get them to perform certain action
  17. MattR has something here. Most folks don’t realize that the SM is selected by the committee. I encouraged all the CC’s in our district, and in WB, to take the SM Fundamentals course so they would understand the Patrol Method vision and the SMs main objective. The CC has the power of the units program. While I was the District Membership Chairman, I was tasked with counseling struggling Cub, troop, and Venturing units. In almost all cases, the common root problem was the committee did not know or understand the mission and vision of the program. As a result, adult leaders didn’t understand
  18. I agree with David CO. When a scout joined the troop, I told the Scout in our first conference that I had total trust in him and it was up to him to change that trust. The problem with adult leaders in many troops is they tend to think of 11 years olds and 11 year old boys instead of adults with lesser experience. Truth is we don't know the maturity or life experiences of new scouts, so why assume they aren't trustworthy. New employees of a company are typically trusted with the responsibility to change when they make wrong decisions in their work. Inexperienced often start their sc
  19. My two favorite subjects. Not to be confused with accounting. Seems math is not an exact science with accountants. 😂 Barry
  20. OK, but ThenNow is saying that he is here to provide information, but in providing information, he keeps giving a personal, not so kind opinion, of the BSA, Then defends himself as just the messenger. Continued Unleasing on him. All of us here whine now and then about National, but at least we admit it. He needs to be a scout like with us as he says the BSA is supposed to be.
  21. If trend is a unit problem, correct with instruction at the unit level. Trends aren't personal, so don't make the correction personal. When the correction involves the parents and scouts, then instruct the parents and scouts together. Barry
  22. I have coached a lot of folks on their tickets. My first question is have you talked to CC and SM. I know that you said the CC step down, but he could still advised some direction for the troop needs. Talk to the SM as well. I am not one to suggest being very diversified, especially if you are new. Keep it simple. Don't take on big projects that require skills you've never used. How many camporee disasters were planned by a scouter working a ticket item. Too many. And, instead of being a planning leader for activities like fund raising or Scouting for Food, , write your ticket to
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