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  1. As the time that a vote total approaches, I encourage everyone to repeat the Scout Oath and Law several times to remind us how to treat one another. There are victims here who wish for the plan to fail. If it does, they will be pleased and if not, they will be very unhappy. Scouters wish for them to be compensated as they deserve some level of compensation. Also, this list is for Scouters interested in bettering Scouting. Many of us have been on these forums for many years. Though they want victims to be compensated, many (most ?) feel that the present plan is a good compromise.
    14 points
  2. A few months ago, one of the posters here offered some great advice I thought. Type what you intend to say. Set it aside for a few minutes and look at it again before you press "post". Does it really say what I intend for it to say? Does it come across as respectful to the readers? We are in a challenging and painful environment. For some of the posters here, Scouting represents the start of a lifelong nightmare which has been brought once again to the surface. For others, Scouting has been a wonderful, life changing experience full of friendships and good memories. And an im
    10 points
  3. I just finished reading Bates' report. Now I have a headache. It's well-written, but a bunch of spin. So we're too old to deserve a decent settlement? While I get the sol issue, if a suit is valid, there's no telling what a jury would do. My abuser was a BSA employee who signed my merit badge card. So there's not much question as to BSA liability. If they reduce my claim by 90% for sol, then scale it down because I'm old, I just don't know why I'm bothering. Maybe they could add a couple of additional minus-scaling factors and I will owe the BSA. But the concept of this being
    8 points
  4. So true. Think about how cheaply scouting could run if a council only had a few staff and a camp. No large staffs dedicated solely to fundraising(to pay large staff salaries) I truly believe in the elimination of the council office. Limited staff can work out of the camp or remotely. Much less overhead and cheaper to operate. Money could be spent to maintain the camp in good condition.
    6 points
  5. 66% is the threshold for a bankruptcy. However, WSJ was reporting even BSA admitted they needed 75% which they didn't reach. There are two issues that the 73% causes. One will be with Silverstein. Has there been a case where there are non consensual releases of non debtors with this low of a vote? Recent votes have all been in the 95% range and even then they had struggles. This will be a hurdle to get over with her. Now, if she approves (which is probably unlikely) the next court to see this plan is a district court. District courts have started to question non consensual rele
    6 points
  6. 1. Pray, you will need it. Scouting is having a very challenging time, and some professionals are not willing to adapt. My current council is getting rid of my District Commissioner, because he is not "effective" serving units as we are not growing in membership and units. We are in the middle of bankruptcy, COs abandoning the program, and a pandemic. Need to focus on existing units that are in trouble, and not starting new units. 2. Listen to your unit leaders. Use those counseling skills learned in WB. 3. Multiply yourself by getting good UCs to help you. 4. DO NOT USE UNIT L
    6 points
  7. Your comment has just enabled my connecting some comments I've heard from professionals and knowledgeable volunteers over the last few years.. The volunteers and some professionals recognize that enhanced program draws more youth to Scouting. They bring their parents, and grandparents to Courts of Honor and Friends Of Scouting presentations. More FOS contributions are realized and with more youth on the membership roles, the stronger the claim for United Way more monies. On the other hand the professionals are targeting large contributions from few major donors. To those donors, t
    5 points
  8. 01/09/20222: Camp Nutter Update 👍 Maine based non-profit Camp Kita announces today that it now has 28.5 acres on Loon Pond in Acton, Maine, which will be the future home and campgrounds of the organization. This property, formerly home to Camp Nutter, allows Camp Kita to expand its reach as a tuition-free summer camp for youth who have lost loved ones to suicide. ...Since its inception, Camp Kita has hosted its camps each summer by renting different facilities. In recent years, however, the group has had to limit applicants due to size limitations or availability of these facilities.
    5 points
  9. I have to admit this is one rule I'd modify. I can't see how letting an 18 yo scout stay with his friends is a problem. Without friendships scouting is a bust. Lack of friendships is the main reason scouts leave. Its why I left.
    5 points
  10. I value perspectives. I want to hear about diverse experiences. I learn from others. This has been a long and winding road. I am not "greedy" and I do not believe that anyone who is a survivor is greedy. We all have had a different journey in how we have reacted to our abuse. I am on multiple forums and I will tell you that survivors come from all walks of life and have walked a myriad of journeys. I will also tell you that not one survivor I have talked to has struck me as greedy. I do find that a lot of survivors are misinformed, confused, angry, and trust no one. M
    5 points
  11. For a decade or so my sons had a friendly competition for the highest mountain climbed. Mostly though I think they wanted to beat their Dads best of 11,711. A few years ago I got an photo of a smiling scoutson #1 standing in the snow, next to a sign proclaiming 18,500 ft. He was somewhere in Nepal.
    4 points
  12. 100% agree with this statement. The court filing states (and bold is in the filing): Great! In fact, if BSA's law firm is so confident, perhaps they would insure the trust that if the trust ends up running out of $, Bates White will guarantee making up the difference! Or, if that doesn't work, I'm sure an insurance company would take a small payment to provide the insurance given how many degrees Dr. Bates has, I'm sure his analysis is spot on! I think they would get 100% of the vote, TCC on board, BSA, LCs and COs out of this mess! I go back to my prior commen
    4 points
  13. Agree, I really don't see why they can't make progress on those two non monetary facets. I may have some skepticism about the merits of the individual YP proposals: independent audits, universal background checks, more survivors on the board, etc., but as someone in the field running units, none of those things would be backbreakers, and we could learn to live with all of them. The independence of the settlement trust seems really easy, after all, how much does BSA care who's distributing money that no longer belongs to them. My best guess is that the bankruptcy specialist lawyers
    4 points
  14. I agree. We had a botanist in our troop that made nature MB fun for everyone. He'd get everyone looking at flowers, counting stamens and pistils and then classifying plants based on that. We were all blown away. While I really appreciate nature, I also appreciate my limits of knowledge. MB classes get boring when the counselor uses the pamphlet to learn the material.
    4 points
  15. IMHO, this has always been a weakness in the MB program. I remember reading somewhere that the MBC should be considered an "expert by means of vocation or avocation", meaning (to me, anyway) that the Scout should get exposure to a field that he otherwise could not get. And don't get me started on "MB fairs" or "MB Universities". The purpose of the MB program has always been to get the Scout to take the initiative to call someone he does not know, set up an appointment, and meet independently (or with a buddy) with said "expert" to earn the badge. And to do all this OUTSIDE of the troop env
    4 points
  16. All of the comments about various arrangements to transfer camps out of local council ownership, essentially for free, to protect them from creditors have not mentioned the Uniform Fraudulent Transfer Act, updated in 2014, and renamed the Uniform Voidable Transfer Act. It has been enacted in about 45 states. The purpose of the Act is to render transactions voidable if done to shelter assets from present or future creditors (by transferring valuable assets, in our case a local council, without receiving comparable value in return which comparable value could be used to pay claimants).
    4 points
  17. Regardless of the side you are on, I think everyone would like to avoid waste. I really think it would help for JSS to start declaring what the court thinks of the plan. She frequently indicated she wanted to see where the claimants are at. It would be great if she: - Clarifies if non debtors can still be included post Purdue AND if that includes both LCs & COs (I see a world where she may agree to one and not the other) - Clarifies what % approval she is looking for ... she doesn't have to lock in a number ... but a comment that may allow parties some direction - Appoint
    4 points
  18. I do not know why anyone is surprised that TK wants Chapter 7. He has stated this from the get go. Now I will give the devil his due, TK does represent his clients better than the other lawyers in this case.. While I disagree with him and do not like his position, I due respect his diligence in representing his clients.
    4 points
  19. The nine TCC members receive no compensation and would probably like to move along with their personal lives. They are strictly volunteers.
    4 points
  20. Yeah I think this is pretty spot on. Probably the worst-case scenario BSA could be put in. Honestly, at this point I would just prefer a BSA-only bankruptcy so my lawsuit can proceed in state court and I can reach a real settlement myself.
    4 points
  21. I doubt it, but not too surprised it hit that level. It was mentioned earlier about Judge Silverstein. I would argue since the RSA, she has been pushing hard to get a plan out for a vote. She agreed/pushed all controversial/tough decisions to plan confirmation (vs Disclosure/Plan solicitation) because she wanted voting to start. She pushed out plan confirmation to Feb 22, but kept the voting report earlier. Why? She said she wants to see where the claimants are. What BSA is asking is for thousands of organizations to be cleared of any liability of child sex abuse related to sco
    4 points
  22. This could be an interesting TCC Town Hall meeting: The next regular Town Hall of the Official Committee of Tort Claimants' (the “TCC”) in the Boy Scouts of America bankruptcy cases will be held on Thursday, January 6, 2022, 8 pm (Eastern). Zoom link: https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/82272826295 (no registration required) or by phone: 888-788-0099 (toll free), Webinar ID: 822 7282 6295
    4 points
  23. This thread has gone from 18 yo scouts to following rules to bad beer humor to women scouters to substance abuse and a strange reference to Rabbinic Judaism. It's New Year's eve. If there were ever a year where it would help to end on a high note, this is it. Please help me out on this one.
    4 points
  24. Hello, I've been a Den Leader, Webelos Leader, Asst. Scoutmaster, Scoutmaster, Wood Badge Staffer and a Unit Commissioner. On January 1st, I'll be a District Commissioner. I would appreciate any tips or advice (too late for me to run...). Thanks!
    4 points
  25. I feel obliged to point out that mathematically if you cut a corner off a totin chip card, which is a rectangle, the resulting irregular pentagon now has five corners. As you keep cutting off corner after corner you eventually arrive at a circle which has either no corners or infinite corners.
    4 points
  26. The biggest challenges IMHO are the promises national and local councils made to CO, and National made to local councils: that they would be protected. The next biggest is BSA's model: the charter. BSA made promises to both local councils and COs to protect them. That was one of the pitches to prospective COs for starting new units back in the day. COs felt they were protected from such lawsuits because they were told they would be, and now they are finding out otherwise. Ditto for the councils. As for the charter concept, while while it has been likened to franchisee agreements, do
    4 points
  27. My intention was to wish all a sincere Merry Christmas and relay a recent article, without opinion as to its content. Just something I found in my reading. Sorry to have caused tension and churned up the grounds in the bottom of your campfire coffee.
    4 points
  28. From the link “The goal of Scouting is to guide each Scout to reach First Class rank, which provides the Scout the basic first-aid skills, outdoor skills, and water safety in swimming skills and canoeing. This, plus memorizing the words of the Scout Oath and Scout Law with the gradual understanding that these are not just words to memorize but words to live by for life.”
    4 points
  29. I'm almost 66 and won't allow this to consume my setting sun. I'm NOT headed to court. Missouri has its head up its @ss with trying for 10 years to eliminate the civil SoL for child sexual abuse. The lawmakers let it die every time since 2013. I don't think they ever really considered BSA victims. Mostly it was alter boys and Marianist students. Either way, the Insurers and Churches beat it down. I moved away. It is what it is. Funny how they had NO problem eliminating the criminal SoL. Let the state have its way and torture the victims while they testify and risk their lives. But
    4 points
  30. Deciding "fair" sounds like deciding art, it depends on who you are and what your circumstances are. What would be fairer to everyone would be if the BSA had not been withering on the vine for the past 60 years. Without that there would be more money and more donations. If 20% of all available kids were in scouts then whether or not the BSA fails would not be an issue. So I'm not sure "greed" of those seeking money really has much to do with any bad news. Sure, the bankruptcy may be speeding any demise up, but I have no illusions as to the BSA's plan of increasing membership in a few years. It
    4 points
  31. I don't believe it ever went away, it has just been changed over the years. For example: YOU NO LONGER CUT DOWN A TREE! Come on, Paul Bunyan and you don't cut down a tree? What sort of Paul Bunyan is that?
    4 points
  32. Had a newer scout that was lugging the 5D Maglight around. I asked him why he didn't get a headlamp or pocket flashlight. His answer was one could not hit a bear over the head with pocket flashlight. I could not argue with such sound logic
    3 points
  33. Is it time for the BSA to change its top leadership model? For decades, the vast majority of council Scout executives have been selected from a system that works by promotion from within the BSA ranks. You work your way from district executive, perhaps to a field executive or specialty position such as development. You attend a variety of Scouting specific training courses over the years Eventually you can be placed on a list for consideration as a Scout Executive at a council or national position if you meet the approval of your supervisor. “Putting your time in” has been considered to
    3 points
  34. We did the Wind River Range in Wyoming. That was where the bugs were but it was stunning. My understanding is that the start of August would be fine there but don't quote me on that. We tried to do a 50 mile loop in about 6 days and we were just beating ourselves up. My GPS said we were doing something like 500' vertical for every mile horizontal. So about a mile vertical every day. We finally decided to cut a corner off of our loop and make it 38 miles or something. The scouts started smiling. Now, this was all because I, the old man in the crowd, pulled a muscle in my knee because I wasn't d
    3 points
  35. I am not sure looking at other large not for profits is the answer either. The problem with BSA top leadership AND with other not for profits is all of them have a singular focus which is fundraising. All of the organizations regardless of good ol boy clubs, or seekers of new blood suffer from this same affliction. Listening in they willfully acknowledge this is priority #1, they even justify it with statements such as, "we cannot serve the members, or advocate for cause 'xyx' without $". I think this is what happens when an org gets too large, it believes that its structure is necessary
    3 points
  36. From my days as a DE, there was a 2 month buffer period, that way if there are any paperwork issues, it can be resolved. I would save a copy of this document because BSA does have an Orwellian habit of removing documents, i.e. documents that stated Dodge Ball and its variants were indeed approved games prior to 2018.
    3 points
  37. There was a great article December on the bankruptcy and it's costs. Some great quotes in it. https://news.yahoo.com/big-winners-boy-scouts-bankruptcy-100024259.html * UCLA law professor calling the whole bankruptcy system corrupt. * BSA fees 40% projected compared to Enron's 3%. * BSA administrative bankruptcy cost is over $200m. Remaining funds is approx $200m also.
    3 points
  38. And please, for the love of all that is Scouting, make him pack his own gear! You can go through the Scout Handbook checklist with him to guide him, but please make him pack it. And starting today, after school & homework, have him gather at least about a third of his stuff ... if he waits until the last minute (Friday after school) , there will be problems for both of you. Windy and chilly in your area this weekend. Lows in the high 20's. Hats, gloves, and layers are a must. Don't know if you two are used to those temps. Is his sleeping bag good for that? And a final tric
    3 points
  39. I did not say that, but the local councils are separate 501(c)3 not for profit corporations who are in the business of out of school child development. My feeling is that they will continue with their mission without a national council or charter but will not be able to use BSA registered intellectual property. They can continue to have camps, fund raise, have units and outdoor activities. Just because the BSA no longer exists will not make them go out of business.
    3 points
  40. https://mandatedreporterca.com/training/volunteers I thought I had posted something, but cannot find it. We were notified in the last day or two by council of the new law, and I have already taken the online certification and received the official coverage from the state. Working out the connected fingerprinting is still in limbo. The law does not appear to allow for them picking up already printed individuals from other mandated areas, such as teachers. I had to be printed as a credentialed teacher, in order to work. So you would think that file could be appenede, but curren
    3 points
  41. First, I have to say no child should go through what you went through. Any part the BSA played in that is wrong and a failure of the organization. Abuse like what you describe is unimaginable to me and as a father, would be devastating to an entire family. You have my complete sympathy. My only defense of the BSA, in terms of their actions in bankruptcy, is that bankruptcy is a horrible way to address child sex abuse liability. I know they chose this path and perhaps financially that was the correct option for the BSA. I think as a current scouter, I can ensure my Troop follows all b
    3 points
  42. @IWasAbusedinScouting your post appears inaccurate. Bill Gates is not a national board member, rather Robert Gates. Image appears Photoshop'd, Hid post for moderator review, RS
    3 points
  43. Did I discuss narcoleptics driving to summer camp? No. You invented that as a strawman argument. Let me sum it up. You argue anyone with an alcohol use disorder (which is regularly having 7 drinks in a week for women or 14 for men) should be screened out of Scouts, regardless of whether or not they follow the "No alcohol at scouts" rule; because you are worried that (something might happen) if their disorder suddenly hits a crisis point and you've trusted them with kids. So if that situation is what you are afraid of, and you think the risk is sufficiently dire that they should b
    3 points
  44. For good or for ill (more often than not mine), I have a low threshold and hair trigger on my injustice reflex. It has often gotten me into trouble defending people in sometimes no-win situations. Occasionally, I win regardless. This goes all the way back to objecting to physically abusive parents to neighborhood bullies who picked on my brothers to developers who force out and displace at risk populations to COVID Era politicians and businesses who abuse the unsuspecting up to and including a giant insurer who took advantage of me and others similarly situated. I just hate it. Along those lin
    3 points
  45. Listen, no one in scouting wants kids to be hurt, and especially not the folks on this forum. Some say some silly things, but that's only out of ignorance. Most of the people here would pull out the brass knuckles if they ever kinew, heard, saw, thought something bad was happening to a kid. We're going to figure this out. We, as a society, are going to do better going forward. This bankruptcy case is going to help with that.
    3 points
  46. A good contingent of UCs is important, and as stated earlier, try to avoid using direct contact leaders to fill those positions. Strong ADCs, particularly those involved in Roundtable are important. Be sure that you have people in place who are not afraid to disagree with you when needed, and above all else, do not let it overwhelm you and become the sole driving force in your Scouting life. We have lost more than one DC who did not know how to delegate and trust his people. That just leads to an ultimatum from the spouse.
    3 points
  47. Whoopie Ti Yi Yo, Git Along, Little Kitties!
    3 points
  48. My belief is that the insurance company's are not under any pressure right now vs the BSA and the coalition who want to make a large dollar figure and announcements to try to get the settlement to pass. Why offer $5B (hypothetical) when you may get away with $800M?
    3 points
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