Leaderboard

Had a good conversation with our COR last nite. Helps he is also a former SM and knows all the challenges I face in that role. We are on the verge of folding. He know it, our adults know it, and the Scouts may know it. We need one more Scout in order to recharter, and we are going full throttle on recruiting. Our DE says they can help us get into the schools. I hope that is true and he follows through, but the council's record on that is poor. But as Gandalf the White said, " There is always hope, a fool's hope." We will be doing our annual fundraiser as if we will be rechartering. Goal is to raise enough money to pay national and council fees, and summer camp. We will continue Scouting on. Back up plan is if the troop does not recharter, pay for everyone's, both adults and youth, registration and council fees, pay for summer camp, and save the rest to restart the troop at a later date. I am sticking around as SM until December 2026. I have idea on someone to replace me, but want to get them up to speed.

There's two things here, maybe related, maybe not. As an outsider with few years dealing with BSA (not involved with the settlement at all) I see things more from a corporate and legal lens. I agree with the assessment that doing the settlement fund piecemeal (going after councils, CO's, etc ... ) would have created a vast array of have and have nots. So many guilty parties (councils, units, charter orgs, perps) no longer exist, which would have prevented victims from seeking any restitution. I still struggle with these funded vs hypothesized fund numbers. What I know of nationals resources and debt and the councils local to me is that there really isn't much money out there, especially at the councils whom are mostly operating hand-to-mouth. To the discussion of Scouting America being around in the future; I have no doubt that Scouting America will be here in 100 years. I do think Scouting America will look a lot different, a lot more like how I understand scouting was 100 years ago. I think national is going to have to divest itself of a lot of physical property in order to get out of debt; maybe only Philmont surviving. I think the number of councils is going to shrink down to less than 100 (I think this will happen in the next 10 years). I think the number of council owned properties (camps) is probably going to shrink down to around 50 and start to get run more by professional adult camp staff and less by summer volunteers on a 4 season operational plan (the days of 7-9 weeks of summer camp run by barely paid OA seeking volunteers is coming to an end).

In 1989 when aged based patrols became the recommendation instead of Traditional, mixed aged patrols, that was the beginning of fall of the Patrol Method. In 2012, when they no longer allowed patrols to camp on their own without adult supervision, that furthered the fall. In 2018 when they no longer allowed patrols to have any day activities, i.e. patrol meetings, hikes, camp shopping etc, unless 2 registered adults over the age of 21, that nailed the coffin shut IMHO.

I'll tell you why we "isolate" ourselves... We have the strongest Troop in our District, and I daresay our Council. First and foremost, this is because of a small dedicated cadre of adults (about eight) who understand the Patrol Method, and mentor our Scouts to keep that as a focal point in our activities. We have 35 total adults registered, with 44 youth currently on the books. Of the 35 adults, again, eight pull most of the weight, about 17 dabble here and there to help out, and 10 contribute nothing, if not less Of the 44 Scouts, about 10 are extremely active in the program, about 26 dabble, and eight contribute nothing and will probably drop out. Side note: notice how those numbers follow the 20-60-20 rule? I learned that some time ago in a military leadership course... in any group, 20% of your people are Sierra Hotel (focus your time on them), 60% are average performers (encourage them and some will respond, but not all), and 20% are low performers (Help them when they ask.. Do not expend effort chasing them or trying to bring them into the 60%. If they do, great... if they don't, let them go.) Here are a few tenets of our Troop adult culture: 1. Adults will be fully trained in their positions. No exceptions. We make adults aware of the training burden and commitment expected before they sign on. 2. Don't get your training done, and you are dropped from the roster. 3. It is not about your kid. You are here for all. The best compliment you can get is, at the end of a camping trip, when your Scout hops in your car, another Scout looks at him and says "I didn't know that was your Dad (or Mom). During our events, try to act in such a way as to receive that compliment. 4. Our Troop pays for adults' food and camping fees for trips. (or at least a portion thereof, when attendance is over the adult leadership requirements) Adults pay for their own activity fees (like whitewater rafting, ziplining, etc.), and their fair share of gas and tolls for the trip. We let our adults know we appreciate their time and sacrifice. 5. We pay for all required training. For example, when you sign up to be an ASM, you must attend IOLS. You pay out of pocket at first, and when you are done, the Troop reimburses you the cost. 6. We pay half for advanced courses. For example, we have our own unit climbing program, so we sent a leader to National Camp School, Climbing section, to get certified, so we can run our own unit program. (Our program is cheaper than local council or commercial costs!!) We sent a leader to NCS for Outdoor Skills (formerly know as Scoutcraft). We sent a leader to do Shooting Sports (now known as Range and Target Activities?) Next year, we hope to send one to Aquatics. 7. A good number of our adults are trained in CPR/AED, Wilderness First Aid, Swimming and Water Rescue, Paddlecraft Safety, and YES!! Chainsaw Safety. We push leaders to get these kinds of courses as a "Force Multiplier". With these skills, we greatly enhance our capability to provide youth the program they want, when they want it. 8. We police each other. Youth Protection is fiercely enforced. Other breaches of GTSS and Scouter Code of Conduct are handled discretely, but firmly. Most infractions are due to ignorance. Ignorance can be cured... 9. Overall, adults need to know that, as @Eagle94-A1 pointed out above, unit leaders "...are the heart and soul of the program. Without volunteers, you cannot have the program..." When you treat them that way, they respond with dedication. There are more facets here, but I'll stop. We "isolate" ourselves because the District and Council live a different set of tenets. And the program they run is, well, below our skill set, to put it politely. In 2020, during the pandemic, when all Scouting shut down, our youth still wanted to do a Summer Camp. So, we made our own, and they had a blast. (And EVERYTHING was within the parameters of our State Governor's and CDC orders/guidelines.) The Scouts absolutely loved it! The only thing we did not have then was shooting sports. Since 2020, our PLC has elected to go to various council camps for Summer Camp. The ones who went in 2020 (who are now the senior Scouts) have been disappointed over the years in what they have experienced in the council-run camps. So, they asked to have another Troop-only Summer Camp this year, and it was a huge success. (By the way, in 2020, we ran the camp with 30 youth, 11 adults, at a cost of $244.01 per head; in 2025, 22 youth and 11 adults, at a cost of $303.40 per head.) [exactly in line with inflation...] We have found that we can run a better quality program, at a cheaper cost, and with much less hassle, than going to district or council events. This includes day, weekend, and weeklong programs...

I'd start by referring her to read the rank requirements, pointing out: 30 days (minimum) required to earn Tenderfoot due to the fitness requirement, 4 weeks (minimum) after earning Tenderfoot to earn Second Class (fitness requirement), 4 weeks (minimum) after earning Second Class to earn First Class (fitness requirement). I appreciate the kids enthusiasm, but it is a marathon and not a sprint. To each unit their own, but I wouldn't accept the youth doing videos for rank requirements. If the youth wanted to come to a troop meeting and ask the SPL if there is time for someone to test him on requirement X if time allows, that is at the SPL discretion.

A Scout is Trustworthy. And scouting is not easy. Teach them how to responsibly use tools. And yes they will fail but try again and again... learn by doing. Share the troop policy with parents. For example, how to fully charge phones before activity and how to find a missing scout or a phone via a phone. Back in the day, we scouts had nighttime competitions as to who could tune in the furthest AM station. We would be up all Friday night, however we soon learned the downside - dragging or missing fun Saturday activities. Wiser by Sat night, we slept and were ready for Sunday activities. Scouting is a learning experience. It is far easier to simply... but it is far better to use the Scout methods. Another $0.02.

There are references to patrol activities in modern documentation but it is very limited. The focus on leadership over being able to do things for oneself is what is really killing the patrol method. The original purpose state of which BSA is chartered by congress provides no mention of "leadership" training. The program is so overfocused on leadership training, positions of responsibility, and the eagle project that any notion of self-reliance is gone; scoutcraft is the next thing "leadership" will kill. The purpose statement of the BSA from the national charter: The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

Depends on the SM and availability of trained adult leaders. Our senior patrol still plans and execute 1 or 2 outdoor patrol activities a year. Back in my day, patrols hiked locally without adults provided their SM approved. I would say even then, councils did not recognize patrols. Council events and camps required troop registration even the patrol competition Klondike Derby required troop registration. IMHO, skilled, experienced patrols should be allowed to trek Philmont without adults. As an alternative to an Eagle service project, I favor allowing Eagle Scout candidates to plan and lead a patrol trek without adults in attendance or a "project handbook". We once trained scouts to reach a level (First Class) of outdoor competency such that they could "scout run" themselves without adults present. My $0.02,

I no longer am sure where the tale I am sharing next is located in my "stuff". Never been well organized, and I have read so much over five+ decades that it gets mixed a bit., Anyway, I recollect reading about an early Chicago unit in the teens that would gather downtown near the train station, hop on a train to the outskirts of the city, and hop off with their gear. Then they just took off down a country road looking for a spot to set up. They tried to take note of farm houses nearby for possible meal resources. While they had very basic stuff, so would not starve, and they were not remote per se, back then it was still fairly remote compared to today. Anyway, the story told of them sending the most likely young scout, usually very young and skinny, and send him to the doors of farm house asking for some food for the group. It worked well enough that they seldom really had to eat the less than tasty stuff they did have, and sometimes they even ended up invited in like part of a family. Seems to me that they did offer to do some work for the help, but often were just fed. Try that today.

Why? If your Council is anything like mine, these Council weekend camporees and events are adult planned and adult lead, not Scout planned or Scout lead. Taking a smaller, younger unit to one a year to spark them to suck up some knowledge might be good, but otherwise, I'd rather have them off learning by doing. Making mistakes is a part of learning in my book. It is long and complicated history to get all into Scout camps and long-term resident camp structures, but for me one has to first look at the program itself and how it morphed over time. The earliest days of Scouting were small and fairly widely distributed on units that were formed prior to 1910 and in that first decade 1910-1919. Mostly rural, and camping meant hiking across town to a patch of woods rather than trekking off to some 500 acre camp. BSA growth from 1920 to post-WWII was predominantly in urban areas, and that began the rush for councils to acquire property for these units to have spaces of their own to build out and structure for solely Scouting purposes. Not all of these properties were huge tracts, some were just several acres. Residence camp ("summer camp") for many was multiple weeks, and didn't involve brining in adults to lead- the Scouts/units themselves generally lead the program. Our legacy council was split to three districts, and camp, up until the early 50's, was two weeks per district. The SE was the camp director and in charge of logistics (how to get Scouts and food to camp), and there was one other adult that was "staff"- that was the program director and worked with the with units to carry out their planning of daily activities. The camp property the council had in those years had no dining hall, no showerhouse, etc. There were only three structures on the property when it was sold in the early 1950s and they acquired a new, larger property. Beginning in the 1970s, as membership had peaked and began to drop in many areas, "excess" properties began to be sold off or sometimes transferred to state/municipal entities. For New England as a whole, from about the mid 1990s to present, about two dozen properties have been sold or transferred (many in the later category will still allow some limited weekend usage by Scouting units). Some of those were several-hundred acre type properties, some were hold-over small properties (often with little to no developed structures or water/electricity supply) from decades past. From the mid 1970s to the mid 1990s, several dozen properties were dispatched, often as part of paying down debts to stave off inevitable council mergers. Our youth several years ago tried to get SPLs from other district units together to plan a fall camporee, as our troop stopped going for a few years because it was all adult lead. The District Chair and the District Activities Coordinator were all onboard, until suddenly after a few meetings they weren't. The weekend went off fully adult planned and lead. When we inquired why this had changed, the response was that the "at large" District members (these are adults that are not registered to units, and not in a District Key 3 position, but are still registered to BSA) felt that they were being "left with nothing to do". Our unit had nothing to do with Council/District, aside from Eagle Boards, for the next four years. We couldn't understand how adults that were supposedly sticking around in a front of "supporting Scouting" took over youth running an event, and that seemed appropriate to everyone in a position of authority. I certainly don't have all the answers, and I may be completely wrong on this (even just for simple basic "health and safety" concerns we have to face today), but I am fine with the organization being at the size of youth membership that it is today, if only we could go back to that simpler time when a Council was only a small cluster of towns and had one employee, and camping and program in general wasn't big production. If we could process paperwork with nothing more than typewriters and the USPS back then, technology today should certainly make it feasible to scale appropriately without over-the-top bloat.

Perhaps I am incorrect, I thought the participation in the ceremony was as part of the team conducting it. Saluting and the PoA is as an attendant or spectator. Easy enough to do at a troop meeting instead of having the flags already set up on poles, have scouts present them by walking them to their position in a ceremonial procession. Perhaps this should be the standard operating procedure. Where else will they practice this prior to the troop being asked to perform this by another organization? On campouts, it is easy enough to rig a flagpole and do the raising/lowering as part of the standard program. In general most rank requirements should be able to be accomplished via participation in the standard program. If the program does not have it, then that is an area of growth for the program. Also if it is part of the standard program, the "one and done" complaints are moot.

New kid showed up last week. Went camping with us this past weekend. Can't seem to figure out the patrol method - kept coming to the adults for everything. Mom thinks he can earn Eagle by Christmas. Has him submitting videos for all sorts of requirements. In one, he is obviously reading off a cue card. In another, he ties a square knot instead of a sheet bend. I told the acting SM that I'm not comfortable accepting these as an appropriate level of skill to sign off the requirement. He agrees that it is strange. Has anyone encountered this sort of thing? It's an amazing hyper focus on rank advancement over actually being a Scout. I push my son to learn the material so he can advance, but this is something else.

Parents are the most challenging part of Scoutmastering. National should create a course to prepare for how to respond to them. It takes practice. We had a few families leave because we didn't budge on our program philosophy. One mother took her new tenderfoot son out because I wouldn't delegate him as the Patrol Leader. But we lost several scouts because of our approach to Eagle. And, the parents of the ones who stayed despite their parents' wishes would never speak to me again, even when I ran into them at the grocery store. Barry

How many CORs are actually active on the district and council level? In my long experience, I only know of two. One was a former SM. The other was already active on the district level, and elected District Chairman when he was "appointed to be the COR. The members-at-large are usually the ones doing the actual work. 1. Pros should not ignore the unit Scouters when they need help. Listen to them as they are the heart and soul of the program. Without volunteers, you cannot have the program to recruit members. They know what works and what doesn't. While some have been Scouters a short time, others have years, even decades, of experience. 2. Pros need listen to your district level Scouters as they tend to have a lot more knowledge, skills, and experience than the pros do, especially in the service area. While Pros can stay 3-5 years in an assignment, in my neck of the wood the average 9 months. One DE left in under 30 days. 3. Do not second guess, over rule, etc the volunteers when they are assigned something to do. Best example is volunteer who was "voluntold" he was running a district camporee with 7 weeks notice because the camporee chief quit (see 4 below). Pro didn't interfere that year and it was a successful camporee. Volunteer agreed to do the following year. The Pros interfered so much it caused major headaches for the volunteer, and the event to go overbudget. Supplies were not ordered, so those supplies had to purchased locally at a higher cost. Camp got triple booked over the objections of the two folks running ITOLS and the camporee. This caused the campwide compass course to be redone hours before opening, and additional supplies not budgeted to deal with the anticipated parking issues and to designate the Cub area from the Scout areas. And I can go on and on about the interference. That volunteer promised to never run another district event ever again. 4. Pros need to remember "a Scout is Courteous." They should not yell, berate, and curse out volunteers. Especially ones who are also business leaders in the community. Not only will folks willing to volunteer dry up, but also FOS dollars will as well. Some long time businesses donors heard about these things, and stopped giving. More later

Oh there are some go getters.... Back in my days of yoooth, my Troop was very active, merit badges were not that important. We went camping and hiking and other stuff, New kid joins, his dad is a navy doctor who would attend meetings in full whites. The kid soon announced that he had done the math, so many months required for each rank, and he would be Eagle by such and such a date. Us senior Scouts looked at each other and realized he might well become the first Eagle in our Troop ! we decided we could NOT let that happen. Merit Badges became more important. We started looking for MBCounselors, shared earning them. The "new" kid was an okay guy. He became the third Eagle, about a year and a half late from his original schedule, but that's okay. Armymutt, talk to the Scout. Unless he has some other issues (ASD? Autism spectrum?), He needs to take charge of his Scout career. Remind the mom that SHE is not the Scout.... sounds like she wants to live the Scout life she missed out on as a yoooth. Make her a ASM WITH TRAINING, then a Commissioner to get her out of your Troop's hair,...

You do know that the research for "OPERATION FIRST CLASS," "First Class, First Year," or whatever it is called now is deeply flawed? The research was done in the 1980s, and the idea came out in August 1989. That's when they did away with Skill Awards, time requirements for Tenderfoor, Second Class, and First Class, and went from "Master the Skills," to "The Badge represents what a Scout CAN DO (SIC), not what he has done." mentality which IMHO leads to "One and Done." Research showed that Scouts who got First Class in 18 months stay around longer, which is true. BUT what was not included in the stats was 2 things: 1.How active a unit is and 2. LDS units. The more active a troop is, doing the activities the Scouts want to do, will lead to retention. Yes advancement is slower, but those Scouts stick around longer. Best example is my soon to be 21 y.o. ASM. He spent 4 years working on First Class as the swimming requirement was the issue. But the troop dis activities he liked, and he stuck around. He eventually passed the swim test, and earned Eagle. He has stuck around as much as possible while in college. And all of my Eagles have stuck around until 18, or until they started college. Why? Because we are active and do the activities they want to do. But the surveyors dis not show how active a troop was in their results. The LDS units would segregate their 11 year old Scouts. I have seen lesson plans where the 11 year old patrol would repeat the same program every year. They were treated as if they were still Cub Scouts, with an ASM serving more as a DL, and TGs acting more like den chiefs. Their program guaranteed them First Class in one year. One reason why LDS units got upset when the Camping requirement for First Class went from 4 camp outs to 6 campouts in 2016: their 11 year olds were not allowed to camp more than 4 times /year. And their protest changed it back to 4 (aside this ticked off my middle son as he had to wait 2 months to get the 6 campouts in, and right as he goes for his First Class BOR, National changed it back to 4. He was ticked off) And since the LDS used Scouting as their youth program, ALL (emphasis) males were registered in their troops, whether they were active or not. That skewed the data. So do not take the First Class, First Year to seriously. If you push it, you will have Scouts get bored, note care, leave, or stick around long enough to get Eagle and then quit. I have seen this happen with a lot over the years.

I'm old school, been scouting since the 70s. But have no problem with scouts having cell phones on any outing. I think it is our station to teach them when it is appropriate and how to maximize it on outings. I can't count how many times adults have phones ring in meetings. The leaf identification, star charts, and ways to connect like snapchat or team reach is invaluable. My last wood badge staff used snapchat for immediate updates to the schedule. 1. I'm NOT in favor of taking possession of anyone's phone/property. I think an adult with a youth's phone is walking a dangerous line. If the phone gets lost, damaged, cracked screen, wet, or gets accessed to review photos or messages, that adult is dumb for putting themselves in that position. 2. I'm also not in favor of any adult taking my family member's phone or property. If they want something, grab my gear and carry that. 3. HOW ABOUT ALL ADULTS LOSE THEIR PHONES FOR THE WEEKEND AND SCOUTING EVENTS. NO CHECKING IN, NO SENDING PHOTOS, NO BUSINESS, NO WEATHER CHECKS, NOT AT ALL! I'm willing to bet there is an adult that can't do it. How about what Greenbar Bill used to say, Train them, Trust them, Let them lead!!!

Interesting turn of events tonight. Our lone Eagle Scout who is actually actively showing up AND participating came up to myself and the acting SM and presented his thoughts on the troop. He said that he would dissolve the patrols as they are right now and reform them, integrating Scouts of all ages. He sees that what we have isn't working because there is no one in the patrol to teach the younger Scouts anything. As he was talking, I started laughing internally. I pulled up a text thread where I shared an image from the 1941 Handbook for Scoutmasters that described how to do exactly what he proposed. I think by our next elections in October, the troop will have a different look and feel. My plan is to use the older Scouts who are not in PL roles as Troop Guides, responsible for helping the PLs ensure their Scouts are advancing and gaining the Scout skills they need to be able to act independently, within the G2SS. Hopefully, that will motivate them to start leveraging the technology they have available to hold patrol planning meetings outside of troop meetings and reduce the amount of planning taking place at troop meetings.

@Armymutt, I certainly tried to get patrols to do their own thing. We had 60 some scouts (6 to 8 patrols) and I pushed for meetings on their own, service projects on their own and activities on campouts by patrol. If there was a hike then the patrols could hike on their own, if they could prove to me they were prepared. I refused to mix and match patrols unless there were less than 4 scouts in a patrol and that's what they wanted (they usually didn't). The scouts understood the point of all of this. The adults were the problem. They constantly said it was more efficient to have everyone do the same thing. The only thing they didn't fight was to let the patrols do on their own was cooking. Within a year after I stepped down cooking was the only thing they did on their own. They started mixing patrols for each campout. By now there is only one patrol on a campout anyway and on some campouts the adults and scouts cook together. If I were a better leader I could have convinced the adults that efficiency doesn't teach leadership. Rather, dealing with problems teaches leadership. But I was never very good at teaching the adults. I tried.

We had started off with intent to keep units separate, then when numbers fell and recruitment just wasn't bringing in new girls, for practical purposes we had to do everything jointly. The pilot just made sense- especially as we were told from our Field Service Director that National did not want councils to keep letting units re-charter with 3-4 youth year-over-year anymore- that it was survival for us. Too many girls in our pack have brothers, and to lose pairings each year would kill us, and eventually begin to make parents question why they are even registering their kids in our pack when they'll have to move to the town over in 3 years like their BFF's kids had to do.

Sadly I have been to a camp where they gave away MBs. For example, Scouts receiving Basketry MB without doing all projects, folks receiving aquatics MBs with actually being able to do the skills. and I can go on. And you feedback to improve the camp is ignored.

My feelings are hurt but it has nothing to do with this thread ...

As a former pro, I can tell you even with professionals leading every troop, the quality will vary. Yes it is a red flag, one that says the council is not supporting the units, at least in my experience with 2 different councils. Districts and councils are there to support the unit, not the other way around. If a unit is in need of help from the district/council, and is constantly being ignored, the unit will start isolating themselves. If unit leaders work to put on events, and do not get the support they need to run the event, get overruled on things, or the event is cancelled last minute despite everything being in place and ready to go, but the "budget surplus" is not being met, then units will start isolating themselves. If a unit attends their council summer camp, and it is an absolute Charley Foxtrot; with the suggestions and recommendations to improve the camp and its program are ignored, then you will have units doing their own thing. The irony in my experience is that the leaders of these units were usually some of the most active, pro council volunteers. In one council I was in, the units in question had former district committee members, Silver Beavers and OA Vigils in them. They were accused of being "Council Kool Aid Drinkers ( I know, Jim Jones used Flavor Aid), because they were at one time so supportive of council. Ditto on the second council I have seen this occur.

Let me start with I think there is unfortunately a lot of leeway going on because so many councils are in life support mode and don't want to risk a whole troop or pack dropping from the rolls. It is the wild west out there because membership numbers are so important right now and the paid scouters seem to want to keep their job more than running a quality program. We have a unit in my district right now that we all know is a paper only unit that the CO is trying to keep alive for some reason. A member of the key 3 was removed from scouting for committing and being convicted of a felony. No one is trained. No program is being provided. We're not even sure if the scouts are real; all we know is that the CO pays for 5 adult, 5 youth memberships and a recharter every year. The unit "meets" out of district. The unit never attends any district or council function. This is a prime unit for charter revocation, completely not running the program or even trying, yet nothing is done.

Don't forget about that balloon type of payment liability that matures. As I recall it depends on the performance of the pension assets, and thankfully the stock market is at record highs, but it may not always be so. Agreed on your other points. I question whether Scouting will ever be as popular as in the 1980s, just as we will never go back to having three television networks plus PBS. Be Prepared

As long as the troop is using the methods of Scouting and following the "rules" regarding youth protection, guide to advancement etc... I see ultimate leeway. The council and district events are not necessary. Whether or not the troop is actually providing a true scouting program via the methods is a different question altogether.

I'm sure she has her reasons. Maybe the family has encountered some challenges and are searching for meaning. In this case, landing on Scouting seems healthy. It could be the pre-teen equivalent of a middle-aged man deciding he's going to go from his couch to a marathon in less than a year. There are sure to be some missteps in his training, but his goal is still admirable ... It's also possible that you're working with a family of grade-A narcissists who are going to drop into your troop life for a short time and make things miserable for everyone as they try to mow down every obstacle in their perfect little boy's way. 😬

I would be EXTREMELY leery about this. Sometimes that is all it takes. But most of the time it takes that PLUS mentoring. And I have seen cases where folks took the training, thought they knew better, and ignored any mentoring to get them up to speed. Kayn Hourbacker got it at 11. He joined at 10 years old, and did it in exactly 19 months. Then there is this girl at 12. I question how much they really know. I met one Eagle who got it at 13 that I can say knew their stuff. He was also pushed by his Eagle And Explorer Ranger Award dad ( OK I screwed up, I called the dad a Gold award recipient all these years because Ranger ended in 1949. But I recently found out that if you started it before 1949, you got to finish it until 1951.) Here is the deal though, he quit immediately after getting it. No HA trips, jamborees, OA, nothing.

Even at a full sprint, joining to Eagle takes 19 months: 30 days for Tenderfoot physical fitness requirements (all Scout and Tenderfoot requirements could be done in this period by a precocious Scout) Four weeks for Second Class physical fitness requirements (cumulative now 2 months) Four weeks for First Class physical fitness requirements (cumulative 3 months) Four Months as First Class to Star (cumulative 7 months) Six Months as Star to Life (cumulative 13 months) Six months as Life to Eagle (cumulative 19 months) I have never seen it done that quickly. The fastest I have seen it happen is a young lady who, already having her Venturing Summit Award, Congressional Award Gold Medal, and GS Silver Award, joined a Troop at 16 years old (under the waiver), and completed in 20 months to become one of the Inaugural Class of female Eagle Scouts. And, other than school work, that is all she focused on. (She dropped out of GS, and said the Gold Award was not worth it for her...) Show Mom the math...

Never seen or heard of this before. I would ask her where she got the idea for recording videos of him performing tasks and see where the leads.

We're trying to correct what I, and the acting SM, perceive as failures of previous adult and youth leaders in our troop, and the troops from which we have received Scouts. We have a number of Scouts in the Star, Life, and Eagle ranks who can't do basic Scoutcraft. I'm of the mindset that a Scout should be competent at the skills of the previous rank, and an expert at the skills of the ranks below that. For example, I expect a First Class Scout to have no problem tying a square knot, two half hitches, or a taught line hitch. The Guide to Advancement says this: It is important to remember that in the end, badges recognize that Scouts have gone through experiences of learning things they did not previously know. Through increased confidence, Scouts discover or realize they are able to learn a variety of skills and disciplines. Advancement is thus about what Scouts are now able to learn and to do, and how they have grown. Retention of skills and knowledge is then developed later by using what has been learned through the natural course of unit programming; for example, instructing others and using skills in games and on outings. When the requirement says, "Show first aid for the following:", does it mean using the book or from memory? I lean more toward memory with prompting from the examiner. That's what we did this weekend. I have a feeling other leaders have taken a more Cub Scout view of things and if the Scout did it in the class while mimicking the instructor, that was good enough. Consequently, unless the unit actually follows the last sentence of the relevant portion of the guide, the Scout never develops the skill.

Thanks for the updated stats. You are correct.. Don't ask about recruiting outside of school round ups and talks. We do them, and most boys interested in what we do are already in Scouts. And those troop are catching on to focusing on adventure, not advancement. I have recruited more girls for the girls troop. One Girl Scout said she wished her GSUSA troop would do some of the stuff we do. When I mentioned the girls troop she said, " My mom would kill me. She works for the Girl Scouts."

So what's going on is a DC circuit court judge has dictated that burning the Israeli flag is a hate crime; therefore the response is "How is it a hate crime and illegal to burn a foreign nations flag but not illegal to burn our flag?". When stupid people do stupid things it's very common for more stupid things to happen in response.

Santa Barbara–based troop, Troop 26, was on the fourth day of a seven-day backpacking trip through the Emigrant Wilderness in the Stanislaus National Forest that borders Yosemite National Park. Nine young scouts were accompanied by five adult leaders. They were trekking with their 40-pound packs through a high-altitude meadow near Long Lake when they came upon a lone, disoriented 78 year old outdoorsman Douglas Montgomery. He was on a solo 14-day backpacking trip but lost his pack and with it his shelter, food, water, medication, and personal locator beacon. He did have his survival training from Scouting, but Eagle Scout Douglas Montgomery was cold, tired, and dehydrated when Troop 26 scouts came to his rescue. There's more at source. Good story with another surprise or two. Source: https://www.independent.com/2025/08/24/santa-barbara-boy-scouts-rescue-former-scoutmaster-lost-in-the-sierra-nevada/ P.S. I can relate to this quote from old Eagle Scout Douglas Montgomery “Backpacking was my first love. But once you learn how to live in the wilderness … and your backpacking skills become more challenged by age, you like stuff where you’re sitting down.” Scout Salute to all in this story.

One way to encourage the scouts to have their handbook for signoff (As an aide from the cell phone issue) is to have them present it when they "request to be tested".. This also helps with the issue you presented in the other thread abput when do they get signed off. I am with you that it without botes, or assistance. The scout learns, practices, then is tested. The sign-off occurs with successful passing of the test.

A few things ... #1 The "enforcer" role? ... What are the roles of an adult leader? Is the adult leader an "enforcer"? A wise older friend? An advisor? A safety check? ... I fear the adult leader as "enforcing" rules as it creates a separation / barrier between the scout and the adult. It creates a grudge when the phone is taken and an incentive to hide the phone and hide the person from the adult leader. #2 Consistent expectations ... Will the adult leaders police themselves and secure their phones too? Key to scout is the example that the adults set. Scouts mimic the adults. Scouts quickly see the double standards setup by the adults as hypocrisy. Obviously ... IMHO ... The purpose of scouting is to teach skills, responsibility, etc. At some point, we meet the scouts where they are instead of dragging them into the past that no longer exists. Cell phones are part of their world and part of the adult world.

Good grief. The cellphone is just another tool like a pocketknife. Maybe add to chit card. If a scout abuses the privilege, take it away, teach, trust, and return it. My $0.02. P.S. SOS Flashlight is a pretty cool and simple Android app.

The public schools across the country have banned cellphones unless medically necessary, like a glucose monitor.

I've been reading the 1941 Handbook for Scoutmasters and it reminded me of something I read as a kid in my first Boy Scout Handbook, 9th edition. To make sure I wasn't misremembering, I pulled it off the shelf and on page 17, it discusses Patrol Hikes and Camps. It says "Good patrols go overnight camping by themselves." The 10th edition dilutes the encouragement and makes it more of a possibility. By the 12th edition, the notion of a Patrol doing something without the rest of the troop isn't even an idea. Just to make sure it wasn't a Green Bar Bill anomaly, I went back to the 7th edition and found a similar idea as the 9th. Even as a youth, I always thought it would be fun to have a patrol campout, but we were pretty limited due to transportation. Even the SA website says, "Patrol Activities - A Scout patrol may camp or hike with other patrols in the unit." This sounds suspiciously like "Only troop camping is allowed", which is a bit like Cub Scouts, with the exception of the Webelos and AOL dens. Even the G2SS has eliminated any mention of patrol outings. If a troop is supposed to be made up of patrols and not split into patrols, then shouldn't the focus be on patrol-level activities?

I'm not worried about that. The acting SM and I are on the same word in the sentence, let alone the same page. We are also the only two adults on the program side who are consistently involved.

Adults meddling with who is in which patrol rarely works out. I'd suggest giving the authority back to the scouts to create their patrols. SM conferences with SPL and other (youth) leaders consistently to help them make good decisions.

This is the normal response from new leaders because their parenting nature is reacting to the situation. Most new leaders have to be retrained in a scout-run program. We approached this in several ways, including having the scout read and use the Scout Handbook. When I taught Scoutmaster Basic back in the day, the two most asked questions were discipline and uniform. My answer to the uniform question was the Scout Handbook. If the scout knows the uniform policy, they also know when they're not following it. They are making a bad choice. Don't hound them about proper uniform; ask them if they made the right choice. But really, it should be the PL who asks. Honestly, I wanted to see how the scouts dressed. Often, it shows a state of mind. Often, it shows a scout struggling at home. Another way we got new adults used to the scout run program was by restricting the adults from putting up the scout sign to get the group's attention. Adults rarely need to get the group's attention in a Scout Run program because they are in the background. However, if an adult is being used as a resource to explain a skill and needs to get the group's attention (because they are boring), then the adult asks the nearest youth leader to get the group's attention. Likely, the scout will put up the sign, and the adult will follow in support of the youth leader's direction. There are other ways to train adults to let scouts make their own decisions, but honestly, it is a matter of mindset or a culture that respects scouts as equals to adults. Adults wouldn't treat other adults as some treat scouts as youth. The faster adults start treating scouts as equals, the faster the culture of trust changes. And the results are amazing. Scouts have to get used to it also; they have been led by adults all their life, so they just can't turn a switch to change. Trust comes from continued actions by both the adults and scouts. Practice. Barry

This occurs in units where the youth leaders are not contributing to unit performance. Most of the time the adults are assisting the leadership to the point that they are preventing bad decisions from interfering the activities. Ambitious Scouts will rise up into leadership positions in units where the scouts are held accountable for program performance.

This right here. This is what is going on across the whole doggone country. Then when people get sick of "commuting" to scouting after a handful of years the whole family quits. Full co-ed is going to be the long term answer. I see them providing chartering options; however, once coed is an option it will quickly become the dominant troop charter type just how family packs (which took only 3 years to become so). In 5 years we will have a couple boy only or "linked" only troops functioning out there because of some oddball leadership; however, those units will eventually die off just like the boy only pack holdouts have.

You were probably quite good at it, but it wasn’t your job. That’s the job of a UC or DE. And National has not adopted a vision of the pinnacle scouting experience: hiking and camping independently with your mates.

Yes, focus should be on patrol activities. As far as adults, transportation etc... the numbers still work. 2 cars to transport a patrol is 2 adults. I firmly believe the slow methodical demise of the patrol method is the demise of scouting to truly achieve its aims. It is within the patrol, as a functional member where the lessons which develop the scouts character are born, bred and raised.

We are dealing with an obderate council that refused to allow our small unit to be part of the pilot locally, but we have two girls we will register anyway, though how we have not figured out for sure. Otherwise we lose them, and they are part of the family already with committed parents. Two others are a year back. I suggested to the leaders they just move them at charter like normal and then we deal with the nonsensical "stuff". Small units like ours really need ALL the youth we can get, period.

From Google AI Overview Jim Lovell, the astronaut famous for commanding the Apollo 13 mission, was also a dedicated Boy Scout who achieved the highest rank of Eagle Scout. He was actively involved in Scouting, serving as lodge treasurer for Mikano Lodge in Milwaukee. Lovell's Scouting background is highlighted by his achievement of Eagle Scout and his later involvement with the Order of the Arrow, where he was an Arrowman. Here's a more detailed look at Jim Lovell's Scouting journey: Eagle Scout: Jim Lovell achieved the Eagle Scout rank, the highest advancement award in Boy Scouts, according to the National Eagle Scout Association. Order of the Arrow: He was an Arrowman, a member of the Order of the Arrow, which is an honor society within the Boy Scouts of America. Mikano Lodge: Lovell served as the lodge treasurer for Mikano Lodge in Milwaukee. Space Exploration: Lovell's dedication to Scouting extended to his time as an astronaut. He even took a Mikano Lodge flap with him on the Apollo 8 mission, which orbited the moon. He had hoped to take one to the lunar surface on Apollo 13, but the mission was aborted. National Recognition: Lovell received the Distinguished Eagle Scout Award in 1990, according to the National Eagle Scout Association and served as President of the National Eagle Scout Association (NESA) in the mid-1990s. Inspiration: Lovell's Scouting background has been highlighted as an example of how the skills and values instilled through Scouting can contribute to success in other fields, including space exploration, according to NASA

Shhhhh!! This is our dirty little secret! Don't tell! You shall not reveal that we have subverted the ideal of supporting a unit program in long term camp, and changed it instead into an individual's "pay your fee, get your MB" scheme to pump out Eagle Scouts and generate council revenue. Into the doghouse with you!

Thursday 7/24/2025: Eleven Kauaʻi Sea Scouts departed Nāwiliwili Harbor (red dot below) for a 10-day cruise around Kaua'i on a 40-foot trawler named Decisive. "A very powerful magnitude 8.8 earthquake off Russia's Far Eastern Kamchatka coast triggered tsunami warnings as far away as French Polynesia and Chile, and was followed by an eruption of the most active volcano on the peninsula." Tuesday 7/29/2025: knowing the first tsunami wave was forecast to hit Kauaʻi just after 7 p.m., the scouts pulled anchor and headed to deep waters about a mile out... Rest of the story (text with photos and audio): https://kauainownews.com/2025/08/01/tsunami-scare-tests-kauaʻi-sea-scouts-confidence-and-abilities-while-on-a-10-day-cruise/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/huge-quake-russia-triggers-tsunami-warnings-around-pacific-2025-07-30/