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During COVID, we had no choice but to allow families to pick up and drop off. Since everything was within 90 minutes (usually 45 minutes or less, but that one day trip) we had a few issues, but they were workable. HOWEVER post COVID had a major trip, 6+ hours away. family was going to be in the area prior to us and afterwards, so the decision to let us meet and drop off and pick up was made. That was a mistake. We got to the meet up point about 30 minutes late due to an accident on the highway. Family was upset that we were late. When asked when to expect arrival for pick up, we told the
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If this works for your unit, then I say try it. It worked very well for us in Cub Scouts to have open campouts. Join us when your schedule allows so you don't have to write-off the entire weekend. If you have another obligation Friday night, but you can camp with us Saturday night, then join us late. Or if you don't have the personal gear or are unsure about camping out the entire night, make it a day camp and join us for activities. This works well with Cubs family camping, with parents providing transportation to/from camp and staying. Logistically, this sort of transportation arrangement fo
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Wise man once said, "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." ( The author of the 2010's edition misquoted him, he obviously didn't do the math). Scouting and sports are two completely separate programs, with completely different goals and objectives.
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Perhaps for Cub Scouts but absolutely not for Scouts BSA. Scouting isn't for everyone. If a kid doesn't like camping out two nights or wants a day camp experience perhaps just stick with travel indoor sports. Also, while adult leader meetings are a great time for adults to drink and eventually discuss the Troop, scout outings are not. As a parent who has kids in both travel sports and scouts, I find the fewer parents involved in scouting a major benefit. Let's not destroy scouting by taking everything that is bad with travel sports and applying it to Scouts BSA.
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National Annual Reports
InquisitiveScouter replied to RememberSchiff's topic in Open Discussion - Program
To be a Merit Badge Counselor, you must be 18. A Summer Camp Counselor (staffer) is not a de facto Merit Badge Counselor. And ONLY registered Merit Badge Counselors may sign off requirements completions. You must have never read your Scout Handbook, any Merit Badge pamphlet, taken the Merit Badge Counselor training, or read the Guide to Advancement to have this all jumbled up. -
Yes? That do that with the counselor. That counselor may end up not being an adult. It is up to the council advancment committe (see other parts of the guide to advancement) to manage the quality of the summer camp mb program. I can assure you that about 90% of MBs am nation wide are taught by counselors under 18. Have you been to camp? Have you assured yourself and your scouts of quality instruction? I have. If you have, you’d know that the requirements are done with an MBC that is more likely than not under 18. You must be new to the program to have this all jumbled up.
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National Annual Reports
InquisitiveScouter replied to RememberSchiff's topic in Open Discussion - Program
G2A "There must be attention to each individual’s projects and fulfillment of all requirements. We must know that every Scout—actually and personally—completed them. If, for example, a requirement uses words like “show,” “demonstrate,” or “discuss,” then every Scout must do that. It is unacceptable to award badges on the basis of sitting in classrooms watching demonstrations, or remaining silent during discussions. " -
^^^ If I could upvote this twice, I would. It's probably the most concise explanation for why families choose youth sports over Scouting. Rather than try to compete with youth sports, Scouting just needs to acknowledge it's fundamentally different and position itself as a compliment or alternative. We might consider making the program more inviting by offering additional day camps or 1-night camping options. I find this preferable to an indoor program (or no program).
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Actually, that isn't true. If so, all counselors would need to be 18. They oversee quality control to make sure those that are teaching the MB are holding to the standards, but the adult is not expected to test each scout on each requirement. Just not part of the program or expectations.
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And, while most such weak or fudged things are not dangerous, in the case of swimming it can be. I had a real wake up on that. I had a boy do swimming for a week at camp and he received his approval and card. A month later, we went to the local Naval Base and used their pool. The Navy guy running the pool told them all to swim the length of the pool,thenfloat, so he could judge their skill levels. The boy I noted could not do it. Now if you completed the badge just a month prior you should have verified minimal skill in four strokes at least, plus float. When I confronted the boy he ad
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Sadly, it is more common than one might think at summer camps. And some camps are significantly worse than others. Part of the problem is the "counselors" are other scouts, albeit a few years older. This should not be allowed. Even if if was an adult who officially signed the card. The adult is supposed to have tested each scout on the requirements, not rely on a 15 year old CIT who "led a class". The merita badge mill summer camps are a stain on the entire process. Sadly BSA doesn't just turn a blind eye, it appears they actively encourage it.
- Yesterday
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This makes sense as it would allow a leader to say "yes, we have an RSO, we have a rifle instructor, and we are at a commercial range". Just like safe swim defense or climbing, they could confirm that they are setup to meet the requirements vs. just saying "well, these are guys who do shooting normally at district events, so they know best". -
When the Scout admits it. Your example of a Scout admitting they didn't read the requirements is a pretty poor judge if they did them or not. If swimming merit badge at camp covers certain requirements each day, the counselor tracks completion, and when done, done. There isn't a requirement for the Scout to read the requirements, just do them. And it should be rare. Rare. Not a regular occurrence. It sounds like for your unit, this was a regular occurrence. Your sense of righteousness seems strong. Again "Just as we avoid penalizing Scouts for the mistakes of adults, it should be a rare
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Today there was a more detailed interview with photos by KSL. Shad Stevens is an Eagle Scouts: “I grew up in it. I was a very young Eagle Scout. It was my life as a young man. I got my Eagle Scout when I was 13 years old and then I served in Order of the Arrow and with other organizations, served on junior leadership training camps and a lot as a young man,” Stevens said. “Then after I got married and came back, I immediately became a scoutmaster and served in scouting for 20 years as a scout leader in one capacity or another.” “Last year and my wife and I went up and toured it and -
I hope this works too. Keep these camps teaching adventure to youth. It's too important to lose. -
LOL, "arm chair", for real? Climbing, caving, boating, swimming not risky? I would venture to say each one of those has far more injuries and deaths in Scouting than range sports. Have you taken those trainings? Supervision is not expertise... The trainings are not there to have the unit leader be the subject matter expert for the event. They are there to inform Scout leaders, "If you want to have this type of event for your unit, here are the points which must be observed..." Take Climb On Safely, for example... The training in no way qualifies a unit leader to take a unit o
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Again. Bugling MB... Scout attempts to play the call(s). After each attempt, he asks, "Did that pass?" When I ask, "what do you think?" He responds, "mmmaybe not(sheepish grin)""... We part company with a partial, but I do not hear from him again.... It's the high G that get's 'em. But I insist I hear SOMETHING approximating the call as we both hear it on my ancient CD . Three brothers arrive with new "Hunting Horns", also seen online as a "Cavalry Horn" ( the short little ones , not a "real" bugle). I tell them, yes with expertise, the calls can be made on these horns
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Because unit leaders are not supposed to be trained to supervise; BSA leaders are either trained and certified for shooting sports or they are completely unqualified, there is no middle ground. The liability around shooting sports is so risky that there is no room for the arm chair supervisors of the other BSA programs. -
One big reason why families choose travel sports vs. scouting: parents travel with their child. A lot of adults don't like camping in the woods; whether they don't have much experience in the outdoors, they don't have the equipment, the arrangements are not comfortable, they don't like the bugs, whatever. But they will travel and stay in a hotel. The parents are nearby to keep an eye on their own kids. Many parents today want to spend their free time with their kids. They don't want to ship them off to other adults and leave them in the woods all weekend.
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@skeptic, I'm pro-Scouting. I'm just trying to provide an objective account of why Scouting seems to be losing the "Battle for Bodies" to youth sports. The YP concerns you mentioned are valid, but if we're being honest, youth sports doesn't carry the same baggage as Scouting. I'm not suggesting Scouting allow alcohol - rather, the youth sports scene is just more conducive to fraternization. Some parents enjoy ordering a drink with dinner or a nightcap at the team hotel. Further, the youth-to-adult ratio is often 1:1. Everyone is responsible for their own child unless special arrangements
- Last week
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I hope they make it work. They will be forced to figure out how to do it without merit badges. That could be a good learning experience for other camps. I wonder what kind of program they'd put on for scout units. My old troop has gone to Bear Lake, which also has little to do with the BSA anymore, and the scouts really liked it. -
National Annual Reports
InquisitiveScouter replied to RememberSchiff's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Correct. And that is why I would decline to sign the card if the Scout had not completed the requirements. -
Thus, the unit leader signs the blue card again after the counselor completes it. That's the check the merit badge is earned.
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National Annual Reports
InquisitiveScouter replied to RememberSchiff's topic in Open Discussion - Program
No. Please read Guide to Advancement, 7.0.4.7 "In most cases, with a fair and friendly approach, a Scout who did not complete the requirements will admit it. Short of this, however, if it remains clear under the circumstances that some or all of the requirements could not have been met, then the merit badge is not reported or awarded, and does not count toward advancement. The unit leader then offers the name of at least one other merit badge counselor through whom any incomplete requirements may be finished. Note that in this case a merit badge is not “taken away” because, although -
This isn't an opinion, it is policy. If the blue card is signed by the counselor, then the scout has earned it. Your "beef" is with the camp / counselor, the scout should still be awarded the badge.
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Posts
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By Eagle94-A1 · Posted
During COVID, we had no choice but to allow families to pick up and drop off. Since everything was within 90 minutes (usually 45 minutes or less, but that one day trip) we had a few issues, but they were workable. HOWEVER post COVID had a major trip, 6+ hours away. family was going to be in the area prior to us and afterwards, so the decision to let us meet and drop off and pick up was made. That was a mistake. We got to the meet up point about 30 minutes late due to an accident on the highway. Family was upset that we were late. When asked when to expect arrival for pick up, we told them one time, but also said we could get back earlier, depending upon the backpacking pace. We said we would call them if we got back earlier. We did get back 2 hours earlier than anticipated, and called them. Because of the remoteness of the area cell service was limited and we could not get them. We waited and attempted to get them multiple times. The parents show up an hour after we told them. Yes we waited for 3 hours for the parents to show up. We could have been almost halfway to home. The Scouts were not happy. -
If this works for your unit, then I say try it. It worked very well for us in Cub Scouts to have open campouts. Join us when your schedule allows so you don't have to write-off the entire weekend. If you have another obligation Friday night, but you can camp with us Saturday night, then join us late. Or if you don't have the personal gear or are unsure about camping out the entire night, make it a day camp and join us for activities. This works well with Cubs family camping, with parents providing transportation to/from camp and staying. Logistically, this sort of transportation arrangement for a troop is tricky (adults have to be on the charter, YPT and background check, to stay at camp). Our troop has allowed it on extenuating circumstances (ie. parent drops off kid at camp late and leaves) but it doesn't always work for everyone. Sometimes the troop is camping for fun nearby, so we can make it work out . Sometimes the troop is out on a trek in the wilderness and you wouldn't be able to find us as easily. But I think we have to realize this gap exists on the older side of the program, not just Cubs. I see both sides. -
By Eagle94-A1 · Posted
Wise man once said, "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." ( The author of the 2010's edition misquoted him, he obviously didn't do the math). Scouting and sports are two completely separate programs, with completely different goals and objectives. -
Perhaps for Cub Scouts but absolutely not for Scouts BSA. Scouting isn't for everyone. If a kid doesn't like camping out two nights or wants a day camp experience perhaps just stick with travel indoor sports. Also, while adult leader meetings are a great time for adults to drink and eventually discuss the Troop, scout outings are not. As a parent who has kids in both travel sports and scouts, I find the fewer parents involved in scouting a major benefit. Let's not destroy scouting by taking everything that is bad with travel sports and applying it to Scouts BSA. -
By InquisitiveScouter · Posted
To be a Merit Badge Counselor, you must be 18. A Summer Camp Counselor (staffer) is not a de facto Merit Badge Counselor. And ONLY registered Merit Badge Counselors may sign off requirements completions. You must have never read your Scout Handbook, any Merit Badge pamphlet, taken the Merit Badge Counselor training, or read the Guide to Advancement to have this all jumbled up.
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