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And I will just have add: When things go really bad in the outback, and your life depends on it (the news has stories weekly of folks who have died), having MASTERY of a skill is potentially lifesaving. And if not saving your life, will make a stressful situation more comfortable. Louis Pasteur's quote "Chance favors the prepared mind" means that the better prepared and more knowledgeable you are, the more you'll be able to take advantage of any chance opportunities or observations. Once, headed into a federal wilderness in winter time, the rangers, after looking at our gear sai
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Interesting comment, presents the question: is Scouting an "experience" or "learning (skills mastery)?" "Experience" implies: "Go through the steps, complete them in some measure of demonstrated competency of skills and you are done." (Whether you remember them tomorrow or not.) "Learning" implies: "You've made 8 failed attempts and now you've demonstrated the skill 3 times perfectly-you've learned. Come back tomorrow and if you can do it again, you've mastered it and passed." An anecdote: While on that camp staff in 1969, the waterfront director at an evening staff meeting
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That is a new one I haven't heard before: It's not coaches, then, but lurking predators who scope out kids and swipe them off the field in view of the public, other kids, parents, and ubiquitous surveillance cameras? Interesting. I guess these lurkers don't go after the tuba players very often. I think it's significant that BSA, the youth organization that probably has the most data about child sexual abuse cases over time, and that could produce information useful to scout parents and leaders as well as all other youth organizations regarding incident characteristics, age, gender of vi
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That’s some serious wishful thinking! Those “two hours in public view” are just the tip of the iceberg! From there, while noble coaches are trying to guide kids into a lifetime enjoyment of athletic pass time, the neighborhood predator, on the field or in the stands, is getting acquainted with hundreds of kids and ranking them by vulnerability. Sports and band camps are notorious for providing first exposures to pornography and worse. Some of the kids who are routinely assaulted at home:work their way up in the structure to where they can propagate assault. USA Gymnastics learned the hard way
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National Annual Reports
InquisitiveScouter replied to RememberSchiff's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Recommend a different thread. I never retest the Scout. Yes, we discuss the experience. "How did you like the badge?" "Tell me about a challenge you had, and what you did to deal with it." "Did the Merit Badge Counselor require you to do anything more than the written requirements in order to receive the badge?" "Would you recommend this badge or counselor to your friends? Why or why not?" etc. The attitude here is not to play "gotcha", but to gauge the Scout's experience with the badge and counselor. So, if a Scout comes to me with a Hiking MB card, for example, I would love -
So, a few observations: Comment 1: Back in 1969 and 1970, I was under age 18, and counseled merit badges both years. About a year ago, I asked my camp director, me being curious how it was I could counsel merit badges being under age 18, said, "we knew that you knew what you were doing, so if you approved a scout's completion of a merit badge, we (adults) signed off on the approval." Hmmm. On the one hand, I did know my skills dead-bang-cold, and I did not approve anyone who had not demonstrated that they could actually do the skill. (And, being a naive kid who knew h
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@Alec27, He does not need the form. If you need confirmation from the "chain of command", have your candidate check with the District or Council Approving Authority AFTER he submits his proposal. See the Preliminary Cost Estimate section: "Note that if your project requires a fundraising application, you do not need to submit it with your proposal." Worrying about the form now is putting the cart before the horse. During the proposal phase, he only need answer the question: "Fundraising: Explain how you will raise the money to pay for the total costs. If you intend to
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You mock, but somewhere there is a kid sitting at home on his device that needs to start being physically active so he can train to participate with the troop on a day-long hike, a canoe trip, a long bike ride, whatever. We have some kids who struggle. Everyone is different. For some the requirements are easy, for others, some might take a little work. I watched my son complete the physical fitness requirements and MB as a young scout, and no, it wasn't difficult for him. But there was a sense of accomplishment. That the activities he participates in and effort he made has a difference in his
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The thought here being that National is surreptitiously passing liability for injuries from the Council to volunteer adults with little or inadequate training without their knowledge of the shifting of risk? -
If money for the project is raised / solicited from the candidate, his parents or relatives, his unit or its chartered organization, parents or members in his unit, or the beneficiary then NO FORM is needed. Do not overthink.
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It appears that the Eagle Scout Service Project Fundraising Application and the Procedures And Limitations page are "self-contained," that is, comply with all the provisions of both and the Eagle Scout Candidate has fully complied with all rules. I note that the Application requires Council approval. The text in both the Application and the Procedures mention "donations," with little discussion on how much effort is expended to "fund raise." So, I'd treat the cash donation as being the result of "fund raising," complete the Application accordingly, submit it for Council approval. If appr
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Page 2 of the fundraising form. *This application is not necessary for contributions from the candidate, his parents or relatives, his unit or its chartered organization, parents or members in his unit, or the beneficiary. All proceeds left over from fundraising or donations, whether money, materials, supplies, etc., regardless of the source, go to the beneficiary. If the beneficiary is not allowed, for whatever reason, to retain any excess funds or materials, etc., the beneficiary should designate a suitable charity to receive them, or allow the unit to retain them. The unit must not influe
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Mike, I think the issue is that per the "Fundraising" form you attached, that we already know about, that is in question is to "raise funds" meaning a donation is being solicited or asked for. So in essence, you are "raising funds" by asking for donations and that's what the "fundraising form" addresses. Here's the problem. No funds were solicited. Nobody was asked. Nothing was raised. My son's project donor came forward and volunteered funding of the project on his own initiative and directly to the beneficiary. So exactly what "fundraising" was done? Per the form "If people or
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Actually there is a form in the project workbook. Eagle_Scout_Service_Project_Fundraising_Application.pdf
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If your ASM thinks there should be a form ask him to show it to you. But unless your council has something weird there isn’t one. As you said, have your son answer the question on form F: “Mr. Smith has generously agreed to donate all the costs necessary for this project.” If he wants to elaborate a bit he can add some thing like, “because Mr. Smith is a supporter of both Scouting and the community organization this project benefits.” As a guess, I would guess ASM is sort of waving at some IRS rule about donations over $500, but that’s not for the scout to worry about, that’s
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Hey all. I got a tough one here. and this one's personal. My son has his project proposal next week and I have a MC, ASM and myself as Dad and son getting conflicting information regarding private monetary donations for his eagle project. The kid is building a deck and the whole thing is being funded by a private donation from one of our unit members who is also a parent who is also a friend of the family. Total is just under $900. The problem is that I have an ASM that has sat on our district eagle board telling me that because it's over $500 my son needs to fill out a form. It's n
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And there is a place that makes summer camp badges difficult at times. Going through dozens of signed blue cards from camp, how many of us will have a serious talk with each scout about what he learned or did? Hard to selectively judge unless something rings an alarm, like hearing from the counselor that the youth was not going, or not participating. Of course then, the card also should never be signed as completed if that were the case. We want to trust the youth, and hopefully will find few times to seriously challenge some things. Fine lines and balance much of the time. I am reminded
- Yesterday
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Well, the parents would be right. The average kid is far safer from sexual abuse in sports than the average kid in scouting. Sexual abuse of children is a society wide problem in any setting where adults have access to kids, but a kid on a soccer field for two hours in public view is far safer than a kid on a campground overnight in a remote location with unrelated adults. Studies like this highlight our problems with CSA but have little bearing on BSA's experiences and track record with it.
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I'm salivating waiting for this. It's going to exactly like climb on safely! A legal chokehold that elevates national from liability and voiding the indemnification clause for leaders who do not have the training and experience an incident. This is directly from climb on safely. "The adult supervisor works cooperatively with the climbing instructor and is responsible for all matters outside of the climbing/rappelling activity. " Climb on safely is not a training course in climbing. Contrary to popular belief it's a sideways acknowledgment from the leader who takes it that if BSA policies -
The sporting thing; there's an aspect of this compare and contrast that is not being discussed. https://childusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Five-Key-Findings-from-the-EAS-7.9.2021-Updated.pdf#:~:text=18.3% (nearly 1 in 5) of elite athletes,minor by a sport official or peer athlete. Because of the decentralized nature of sports, schools, clubs, etc ... there's no great big target with a big pocket of money (when comparing to BSA). So for 30 years there are local discussion when a pedo coach or physically abusive coach or exclusionary club gets caught doing the wrong thing; however, the
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Lot of wrong information about that second discussion with the SM about the MB. Page 41 of the GTA states that the 2nd discussion with the SM is supposed to be about the scouts experience, not a retest. As a SM you're signing the blue card not as an approval or denial, but acknowledging that the adult association of the discussion has taken place.
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What is it about the BSA that has allowed it to survive?
Cburkhardt replied to Cburkhardt's topic in Issues & Politics
I think the fundamental activity of the BSA, which is working with and helping to form the character of young people, is an underlying reason why we continue to move forward. As long as we are believed to be doing a good job on this, we continue to have support. We cannot take that support for granted though. Local volunteers are the face of the BSA. People and parents know and like our local volunteers. They generally have good reason to trust them Another key attribute of the BSA which has led to survival is that it is a local organization. Local chartered organizations with l -
What is it about the BSA that has allowed it to survive?
Tron replied to Cburkhardt's topic in Issues & Politics
Tradition. There are a lot of people who were in scouting as a youth and want their kids in it to share the tradition. Americana. There are people drawn to it from the aspect that is iconic and part of the overall American experience. Oath & Law. People are drawn to the oath and law. There is a certain thing about wanting your kids practicing certain principals/ideals and being around other kids who are also practicing those principals and ideals. Outdoors. There are youth and adults who want their kids to learn outdoors skills. -
What is it about the BSA that has allowed it to survive? The BSA as a whole (from the unit through national levels) has processed significant challenges during the past thirty years. For purposes of this posting I include the discrimination lawsuits (Dale v. BSA, etc.), changes to membership standards, institution of YPT, youth abuse lawsuits, inclusion of girls in Cubs and Scouts, COVID, bankruptcy, establishment of the Summit and rebranding. It would seem impossible for a not-for-profit organization to survive such a combination – yet the BSA moves forward. What attributes of t
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This is going sideways fast. I don't want to lock this thread, so please, don't let this website ruin your day. In the meantime ... Doesn't it make anyone else wonder that if we're arguing over advancement that isn't being done and the scouts don't mind and don't care, that this is really just a huge waste of effort? It seems the adults care about the advancement a lot more than the scouts do. Just maybe that means advancement isn't doing what it was intended to do. Aren't all the methods supposed to be ways to motivate the scouts to participate and interact with each other so they l
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By SiouxRanger · Posted
And I will just have add: When things go really bad in the outback, and your life depends on it (the news has stories weekly of folks who have died), having MASTERY of a skill is potentially lifesaving. And if not saving your life, will make a stressful situation more comfortable. Louis Pasteur's quote "Chance favors the prepared mind" means that the better prepared and more knowledgeable you are, the more you'll be able to take advantage of any chance opportunities or observations. Once, headed into a federal wilderness in winter time, the rangers, after looking at our gear said we passed and could go in. Knowing the difficult decisions rescuers faced in crisis, I told him, if a crisis, come look for us last. We will be OK. (Well, and not knowing the future crisis, maybe that doomed us, but we were confident of our skills.) And, many times merely having confidence in one's ability, allows one emotionally to continue on to solve an unknown crisis, that without that confidence would have caused them to hesitate and be lost. THAT is what Scouting did for me. -
By SiouxRanger · Posted
Interesting comment, presents the question: is Scouting an "experience" or "learning (skills mastery)?" "Experience" implies: "Go through the steps, complete them in some measure of demonstrated competency of skills and you are done." (Whether you remember them tomorrow or not.) "Learning" implies: "You've made 8 failed attempts and now you've demonstrated the skill 3 times perfectly-you've learned. Come back tomorrow and if you can do it again, you've mastered it and passed." An anecdote: While on that camp staff in 1969, the waterfront director at an evening staff meeting, asked me if I could put bow lines on all of the 20 camp canoes down at the waterfront. He said, "I don't want rope just tied on, I want ropes eye-spliced on to the front, and end splices on the tag ends. Do you know how to do that?" "Yes, I do." I slipped out of the meeting, (I was a minor nobody), went to the commissary, cut a number of lengths of manila rope for the job, and went to the waterfront. My flashlight, attracting billions of mosquitos, I shut it off…hmmm…lovely…I eye-spliced 20 bow lines in the dark, by touch. I returned to the staff meeting saying nothing. The waterfront director came up to me at some point and asked when I thought I could get the bow lines put on the canoes. "It is done." That is mastery. I don't expect a scout to be quite that skilled, but they at least have to get it right once, and then once again after some interlude. -
That is a new one I haven't heard before: It's not coaches, then, but lurking predators who scope out kids and swipe them off the field in view of the public, other kids, parents, and ubiquitous surveillance cameras? Interesting. I guess these lurkers don't go after the tuba players very often. I think it's significant that BSA, the youth organization that probably has the most data about child sexual abuse cases over time, and that could produce information useful to scout parents and leaders as well as all other youth organizations regarding incident characteristics, age, gender of victims and perpetrators, setting, type, perpetrator profiles, etc., has never compiled or produced any useful or comprehensive research or reports about it. Many other youth or youth linked organizations have done so on CSA, mental health, safety, etc. Never BSA, the organization that you hope all other youth organizations will emulate. -
That’s some serious wishful thinking! Those “two hours in public view” are just the tip of the iceberg! From there, while noble coaches are trying to guide kids into a lifetime enjoyment of athletic pass time, the neighborhood predator, on the field or in the stands, is getting acquainted with hundreds of kids and ranking them by vulnerability. Sports and band camps are notorious for providing first exposures to pornography and worse. Some of the kids who are routinely assaulted at home:work their way up in the structure to where they can propagate assault. USA Gymnastics learned the hard way that large numbers of their athletes were extremely vulnerable because of inordinate trust in professional positions. The types of assaults that I became aware of as my kids advanced through varsity sports made me (and their coaches) nauseous. Moreover, because there is no national oversight of leadership in youth sports, we have no idea of the risks to participants. With what I’ve learned now, would I still allow my kids to participate fully in athletics? Yes. Do I believe that structures like Sandusky laws have helped mitigate risk to some degree? Yes. Do I believe we’ve had a net effect of protecting our nation’s youth from CSA? Jury’s still out, my hope is that one day overall risks to youth will be as low as BSA’s rate, but we have quite a way to go. -
By InquisitiveScouter · Posted
Recommend a different thread. I never retest the Scout. Yes, we discuss the experience. "How did you like the badge?" "Tell me about a challenge you had, and what you did to deal with it." "Did the Merit Badge Counselor require you to do anything more than the written requirements in order to receive the badge?" "Would you recommend this badge or counselor to your friends? Why or why not?" etc. The attitude here is not to play "gotcha", but to gauge the Scout's experience with the badge and counselor. So, if a Scout comes to me with a Hiking MB card, for example, I would love to hear about his 20-miler. That is no small feat! If the Scout says, "Well, we never did a 20-mile hike", then we have a problem, and I have a further conversation with the Scout along the lines of previous posts. Then I have a conversation with the MBC, or the Program Director at camp. I'm not being the Grand Inquisitor as you seem to think. But I do not turn a blind eye to unethical behavior, when it arises. That would only perpetuate the "dirty little secret". Over time, I am seeing more and more instances of Scouts not completing requirements as stated, and Merit Badge Counselors (or Camp Staff Instructors) signing off badges when they should not. "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." This includes the Merit Badge program...
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