David CO 1783 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, ThenNow said: Is it of any interest or simply irrelevant to for you in this context? Huh? Link to post Share on other sites
David CO 1783 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, ThenNow said: I think it's critical for any adult to know, at least the basics, especially anyone working with young people. I'm a teacher. I work with young people. Are you saying it is critical for any adult to know, or it is critical for any adult to believe? Two different things. Edited March 10, 2021 by David CO 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mrjohns2 577 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, David CO said: I'm a teacher. Are you saying it is critical for any adult to know, or it is critical for all adults to believe? Two different things. I think both are true. You don’t believe in the concept of grooming as a precursor to a lot of abuse? Link to post Share on other sites
David CO 1783 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, mrjohns2 said: I think both are true. You don’t believe in the concept of grooming as a precursor to a lot of abuse? For the most part, no. I think "grooming" is one of those meaningless psychology terms. Psycho-babble. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post MYCVAStory 687 Posted March 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2021 Grooming is real and established behavior of sexual predators. A simple Google search will yield a wealth of consistent information. Here's a thumbnail example: https://www.rainn.org/news/grooming-know-warning-signs Speak with victims and you will find that the established grooming behaviors are real. In fact, victims realizing that the way they were unknowingly "groomed" was not unique to them and not their fault can be a very important step in dealing with the trauma they have suffered. For those wanting a deeper dive, Google Scholar includes a wealth of empirical research.: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C47&q=grooming+sexual+abuse&btnG= 5 Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1591 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, ParkMan said: We're conflating different issues here. - Scouting is a good program that many kids benefit from - regardless of "cool" status - Scouting can certainly do a better job of marketing to youth. That doesn't make Scouting bad - it's just the reality. With my sons, each has gone thru ups and downs with scouting. Lots of ups with friends and wanting to see and spend time with them. Lots of ups with adventures, etc. Sadly lots of downs with conflict and boredom. A recent highlight was my 3rd son's last several years. Did it look like the perfect troop? No. But those scout sure had a lot of adventures and they were everywhere and active. Did they run their program, grow in independence and responsibility? Absolutely. I'll put those scouts against any in the country. Extremely proud of those guys. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
David CO 1783 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said: Grooming is real You are free to believe that. I have my own religion. It really doesn't matter, since we have common ground here. I believe all sex outside of traditional marriage is sinful, so I am totally opposed to child sexual abuse. We don't need to quibble about modern psychology terms like "grooming". Edited March 10, 2021 by David CO 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post mrjohns2 577 Posted March 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, David CO said: You are free to believe that. I have my own religion. It isn't the term that matters, but the behaviors of the perpetrators of abuse. This has nothing to do with religion, but it does have a lot to do with good adults being aware of the behaviors of predators. To deny grooming happens, is to turn a blind eye to the start of the abuse cycle. I assume you wouldn't want to be an enabler of a preparator? 5 Link to post Share on other sites
CynicalScouter 1434 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 48 minutes ago, David CO said: I think "grooming" is one of those meaningless psychology terms. Psycho-babble. I'd ask if you are kidding but I've been around long enough to know: you aren't. Grooming isn't "psycho-babble". It is a term that refers to a specific set of actions that are the prelude to most child sexual abuse cases. That you dismiss this as "psycho-babble" is sick. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CynicalScouter 1434 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, David CO said: I believe all sex outside of traditional marriage is sinful, so I am totally opposed to child sexual abuse. Are you actually equating sex outside of marriage and sexual assault of a child? As if the two are somehow the same or even similar? Even the Catholic Church acknowledges there is a vast, GIANT difference between two adults having sex outside marriage and CHILD RAPE. This, and your support for grooming (or rather rejection of the concept) literally is making me sick. Edited March 10, 2021 by CynicalScouter Link to post Share on other sites
skeptic 992 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Eagledad said: Interesting. When we were about 80 scouts strong in a district of 12 troops, the majority of the scouts attended a large (3000 students) upper middleclass Highschool. Toward the end of each school year, all the students voted for the top 7 leaders of the school. I don't remember why 7 was the magic number, but one year 6 of the 7 were scouts active in my troop. And the 7th was a girl. I'm sure she would have been in our troop today. I have no guess to how that happened. Barry "The cool kids don't join scouting." Odd comment based on bias or lack of info. There are many so called "cool" kids in Scouting. Some may not be known to be scouts, but many are. Are you suggesting that the HS valedictorian, who is an Eagle, and going to the Navel Academy is not cool? How about the all league football player that is also an academically recognize? How about the student body president and captain of the water polo team? Or the leader of the marching band? We could go on, but what is the point? Yes, some may not feel it is cool to be a Scout, yet many cool kids are and simply do not make a big deal of it. In every council, you will find some of the best athletes, class leaders, and club developers to also be in Scouting, or were. So, please do not perpetuate this nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites
CynicalScouter 1434 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, David CO said: You are free to believe that. I have my own religion. Yes, and even the Catholic Church (your "own religion") recognizes that grooming exists and is a problem. Why on EARTH are you defending grooming/sexual abuse of minors? This is direct from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops https://www.usccb.org/offices/child-and-youth-protection/preventing-and-identifying-child-sexual-abuse Quote Sexually inappropriate behavior with a child often begins with a process psychologists call “grooming,” often subtle actions that can make children feel special, protected and comfortable in situations that may lead to more deviant activities. An adult could be grooming a potential victim, for example, when he or she frequently signals a child out for special gifts or looks for opportunities to be alone with them. Abusers often attempt to view pornography or use alcohol with children to create intimacy and trust. Edited March 10, 2021 by CynicalScouter Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1653 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ThenNow said: It does go to why someone would persevere in Scouting in the midst of repeated, long-term abuse, not tell an adult and fail to fight back or flee. Most of us froze, as I did. Extremely common with children who are abused. Although I experienced abuse outside of Scouting, this all rings true... I didn't want to tell anyone because I truly believed my situation would only get worse as a foster... food, clothes, a roof, and some semblance of stability were the trade off. The sad part was, years later, when I confronted the couple and some of the people they knew, I found out that their adult friends knew about and didn't do or say anything to stop it. That "betrayal" hit me worse than the sexual abuse. Fortunately, Scouting was the place I could go for safety. Most of my mentors were veterans, and they helped me through some pretty tough times. But, without proof, it was the word of a white trash teenager against a "well-respected" member of the community. No one was willing to be my champion. Edited March 10, 2021 by InquisitiveScouter 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ThenNow 1373 Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Eagledad said: 2000 Yeah. I'm talking about 1972, in my town and in my experience. I wasn't trying to make a universal statement or judgement. I was an Eagle Scout and I'm hecka important. Ha. Edited March 10, 2021 by ThenNow Link to post Share on other sites
ThenNow 1373 Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, David CO said: I'm a teacher. I work with young people. Are you saying it is critical for any adult to know, or it is critical for any adult to believe? Two different things. Um, you're a teacher. Okay. Did I say "know" or "believe"? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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