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39 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

This is me.  Early 80s.  CM who is hanging me upside down is my dad.

image.png.e46572fe75693bccde2add65b84d36df.png

 

Oh, the humanity!  Hang on to that picture.  If BSA survives the current round of lawsuits, you might be eligible for the next round.  Maybe in 10 years.  This may be your retirement plan.  ;)

 

 

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This is one of that areas that the BSA can certainly clean up.  They need to be clear what is a YPT rule and what is a program rule.  Mixing the two dilutes the importance of the YPT rules.  It has to

Oh, the humanity!  Hang on to that picture.  If BSA survives the current round of lawsuits, you might be eligible for the next round.  Maybe in 10 years.  This may be your retirement plan.    

I was asking my Webelos aged son yesterday what games they play in PE at school so I would have some Den Meeting ideas.  He asked me if they could play Dodgeball.  Of course I had to explain that it w

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There seems to be a few issues in all of this.

  • The use of simple rules to avoid danger rather than, say, training as used for water, shooting and climbing activities.
  • Creating rules for problems that don't really exist, such as holding a scout upside down. For those that don't want to be held upside down, just ask the scout and take their word for it.
  • National doesn't trust units and vice versa.
  • Units can do as they please because the only corrective action is drastic and therefore rarely used.
  • It doesn't take many bad actors before we all suffer.

Is that a reasonable summary?

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40 minutes ago, MattR said:

 

  • It doesn't take many bad actors before we all suffer.

 

Tell me about it.  Have you seen what passes for television lately?

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We watch, at most, five hours a week of TV.  No sports.  No "[un]reality TV, especially no TV prostitution.  A pronounced political point-of-view that assumes that no rational fair-minded person could doubt that view in any detail.  No journalism, just opinion and echo chambers repeating what someone said with no effort at verification or objective context.  Libraries closing was the worse aspect of the Civid-19 Winter for us. 

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1 hour ago, MattR said:

National doesn't trust units and vice versa.

Er, sorta.

Guide to Safe Scouting is a compendium of "SOME Council or SOME camp or National once upon a time got sued for this, therefore we have to ban it."

So, while National may trust 90% of units, even 99%, they have written a manual for the "Edge case", that 1% of instances (or even less) where something went wrong and BSA and/or the LC got sued for it.

In risk management it is called a high consequence low probability event.

And with a scared, panicked, bankrupt National freaking out, all you have to say is "safe scouting" and they'll jam it into Guide to Safe Scouting even if what it really amounts to is a programmatic change they want to beat into unit leader's heads.

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41 minutes ago, David CO said:

Tell me about it.  Have you seen what passes for television lately?

No. We first moved to our current house some 25 years ago, have never paid for cable and are just a bit too far away to pick up any channels.

12 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

So, while National may trust 90% of units, even 99%, they have written a manual for the "Edge case", that 1% of instances (or even less) where something went wrong and BSA and/or the LC got sued for it.

Hence, my last point about TV.  If they trusted 90-99% of units then those units would be able to use electric screwdrivers and climb on rocks above 6 feet.

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Here's something interesting to peruse...it's the YMCA insurance questionnaire the Great American Insurance Group uses to begin the underwriting process.

https://www.greatamericaninsurancegroup.com/docs/default-source/specialty-human-services/ymca-questionnaire.pdf?sfvrsn=c4f943b1_6

Take note under abuse/molestation coverage.... "Is your organization Praesidium Certified?"

Never heard of this with BSA...

https://website.praesidiuminc.com/wp/

Probably best posted under YP thread...sorry

moved here by RS

Edited by RememberSchiff
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18 hours ago, MattR said:

Hence, my last point about TV.  If they trusted 90-99% of units then those units would be able to use electric screwdrivers and climb on rocks above 6 feet.

But National has no way of knowing that that 99% are. And the old/ancient idea that COs would serve that function to vet and maintain oversight is just laughable.

So, because National cannot vet, and COs won't vet, then the only thing left is rules written for the 1%.

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5 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

because National cannot vet, and COs won't vet, then the only thing left is rules written for the 1%.

I don't think it's the only thing left. Now, it is if the only tool they have is to write rules. But maybe they could think a bit wider. Consider my first point way up above: shooting sports, water sports and climbing. Given that those are always popular activities at summer camp maybe we should be doing more of that. I would be willing to get tool certified to both allow my scouts to have more fun and, just as importantly, make the g2ss more realistic so there's less cutting of corners. Now, before you say a certification process is expensive, just make an online training for it. Considering that the most important training the bsa has, YPT, is done online, this should be easy. 

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Branding irons can only be used by adults now?!?!?!?!?!?!

Guess Philmont, and other camps need to  get rid of their branding irons since the Scouts can no longer do it.

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8 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

They lowered the age limit for many power tools.  I’ll give a thumbs up as I see this as a move in the right direction!  

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7 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Branding irons can only be used by adults now?!?!?!?!?!?!

Guess Philmont, and other camps need to  get rid of their branding irons since the Scouts can no longer do it.

Yeah, that one has me scratching my head...

I did say "some" sensible changes :)

 

Edited by InquisitiveScouter
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