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47 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

Some councils are financially sound but a fair number (maybe 30?) are insolvent and supported by the National BSA. 

This goes back to my questions on whether the Ad Hoc Committee of LC’s is representative of the whole. Is there any collegiality between LC’s such that one/some would help the others, whether day to day or contributing to the Trust?I bet not, which is sad. If there has been poor management of the insolvent ones, that’s one thing. Crap luck another. I suppose one LC mostly uses its camps and HA, so others are of little interest or concern.

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What is legally right is not always morally right.

I would encourage everyone to not ask @ThenNow to rehash particular circumstances. They can be found by patiently browsing his posts. From what I read, they were far from legal. His claim would have b

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57 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

This is severely punishing youth who had nothing to do with past events.

Which genuinely hurts my heart.

I say this only to note the “law” of consequences, whether physical, financial, spiritual or whatever. I’m not making a judgement or saying it gleefully. “Sins of the father...” I’ll add a footnote: I don’t like how this case has been built by aggregators and advertising, assuming funny business, which I can’t confirm. I support survivors, but not abuse, unscrupulous behavior, fraud or greed.

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What are the judges priorities? I ask because all of the discussion about how the BSA is getting hit by this when few others are brings up a really good counter point. Only the BSA is in the position to improve youth protection. BPSA and Trail Life have little incentive or resources to do any more than they are because they have nothing to lose. The school districts, too, can give lip service to this subject because of whatever government protections they have. Only the BSA can improve things and has the motivation and resources, but not if they're liquidated. If I were the BSA I'd be pushing real hard to let everyone know what they have successfully done in the past to mitigate abuse, admit what has failed, talk about how they want to improve and let everyone know they are uniquely set to do so.  If they honestly believe they have something that works then they should use that. Granted, the response might be "then why were there 11k abuses in the past so many years?" There response should be it's a lot better than the 2000/year we used to have and we'd like to improve it again. Make it part of a settlement proposal.

If the judge is interested in reducing abuse in the future, throwing out the baby with the bath water might bring pause.

But then again, I looked and there is no user name of Mosby on scouter.com. Oh well. It was a thought.

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1 hour ago, MattR said:

The school districts, too, can give lip service to this subject because of whatever government protections they have.

Lip service?  I think that is a little unfair.

 

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Welcome to the forum, @SilverPalm.

I made my scouts dance for lost items. Honestly, I got tired of picking up their stuff all the time. But, whenever a shy scout had to dance it was known among all of the older scouts to dance along with him. It worked. Soon the shy scouts realized it was nothing to be afraid of. A couple of times I had to dance as well. The scouts loved that. It all depends on the attitude, not the task at hand.

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6 minutes ago, David CO said:

Lip service?  I think that is a little unfair.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. But they still don't have to worry about being sued.

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Thank you!

It's one thing if the leaders play along, but in my case our SM didn't.  Regardless, a number of the younger Scouts considered it bullying, and one or two even left the program over it... meaning it was unwelcome enough to those Scouts that they chose jettison the rest of the program merely to avoid what they saw as public humiliation.  While the older Scouts quickly corrected the culture, it was one problem that didn't need to exist in the first place IMO.

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1 hour ago, MattR said:

What are the judges priorities?

To focus on the case at hand: BSA's bankruptcy. Not to fix every ill or to ensure BSA is an exemplar of youth protection.

People keep thinking that somehow BSA's improved YPT means all the abuse claims go away. It doesn't.

This is raw math: does BSA owe money? If so how much? And how much can it be forced to pay?

Or as the TCC lawyers put it: the key focus of a bankruptcy is 1) How much (do creditors get) and 2) When (will it be paid out).

The fact is that if BSA suddenly found a magic formula in March 2020 that made all sexual abuse go away, that would NOT allow a bankruptcy court to dismiss the abuse claims that occurred prior to that date.

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1 minute ago, SilverPalm said:

Thank you!

It's one thing if the leaders play along, but in my case our SM didn't.  Regardless, a number of the younger Scouts considered it bullying, and one or two even left the program over it... meaning it was unwelcome enough to those Scouts that they chose jettison the rest of the program merely to avoid what they saw as public humiliation.  While the older Scouts quickly corrected the culture, it was one problem that didn't need to exist in the first place IMO.

I don't think humiliation has any place in scouting. Having 10 and 11 year old kids stand up in front of their peers let alone older guys and do something embarrassing just makes sensitive kids quit. It's not instructive. Good for you for recognizing that. 

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3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

non-profit cannot be forced to give up things that are core to its mission. 

That's true for any business in a Chapter 11, not just a not-for-profit. The company (or not for profit) must retain enough of an operating business model to be able to survive post-bankruptcy/Chapter 11.

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45 minutes ago, SilverPalm said:

But now... now it looks like that might not happen.

We've told out troop parents this weekend to expect BSA to be shut down this summer. Lot of disappointment and sadness, but that's where we are at.

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3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

This goes back to my questions on whether the Ad Hoc Committee of LC’s is representative of the whole.

Early on several councils fled paperwork that they did NOT consider the Ad Hoc committee as operating as representatives on their behalf and that they would be operating/making decisions as individual councils.

Circle Ten, for example, is effectively operating on its own, up to and including appearing separately with its own lawyers and filing its own objections to motions.

Ditto Baltimore Area Council.

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