slow down

[Maxwell17]

My son joined, went to his first meeting,and his first camp out all in one week last October.  That was it, he's hooked.  He talked my ear off about it and anyone else that would listen.  After speaking to my dad who is an Eagle, like every man in our family except me, he decided he wanted to make Eagle at the age his Pa Pa did.  I sat down with him and we set up an outline on how to get this done.  Anyway he learns new things every day and goes to all activities that are offered.  Tonight he has his BOR for 2nd class.  I'm so proud of him.  This is a problem he ran into, when he started he was the only young scout in his troop and in March a group crossed over that he was put in a patrol with.  The PA came with them and in my opinion is still treating them like a den.  He has a full 5 month jump on the rest of his patrol and it seems like the PA wants him to slow for the rest to catch up.  All he's lacking for 1st class is the cooking requirements.  They have a trip planed for this month that is for MB clean up and avancement.  He has asked to be the GM so he can complete 1st class but it sounds like they are concetrating on tenderfoot stuff.  I always let him take care of his communicating with his patrol and PA.  Should I speak to the PA or just let him figure it out on his own.  I don't think the PA understands how much further he is than the rest of his patrol.

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum, @Maxwell17.

What's a PA?

[Maxwell17]

Patrol adviser. 

[DuctTape]

I am guessing "patrol advisor". If ot is an adult, that is a sure way to have it run like cub scouts. If it it a scout "troop guide" then the conversation should only come from the SM (or ASM)

[Eagledad]

Your son really needs to handle this if the program will allow him. Is there a Senior Patrol Leader he could talk to? That is the traditional ladder of communication. He wouldn't be stepping on any toes by talking to the SPL. The SPL might be able to help or even get help from the SM.

Barry

[Jameson76]

Patrol Advisor should be doing just that, advising.  We put the crossovers in a new patrol for the spring, but come fall they roll up into the existing patrols.  The older scouts are more than happy to pass on the meal planning and cooking

[MattR]

17 minutes ago, Maxwell17 said:

Patrol adviser. 

Ah, thank you.

 

2 hours ago, Maxwell17 said:

They have a trip planed for this month that is for MB clean up and avancement.  He has asked to be the GM so he can complete 1st class but it sounds like they are concetrating on tenderfoot stuff.  I always let him take care of his communicating with his patrol and PA.  Should I speak to the PA or just let him figure it out on his own.  I don't think the PA understands how much further he is than the rest of his patrol.

It's great that your son is so enthusiastic. On the other hand, there's more to scouts than advancement. So maybe channeling that enthusiasm in a different direction might help. One thing this patrol seems to be missing is some scout leadership, PA or no. Either a patrol leader or troop guide should be running the patrol, not an adult. Since your son is so much ahead of the rest of his patrol maybe he could be part of that leadership. Or maybe he could be the assistant patrol leader to the patrol leader or troop guide. It would give him a great opportunity. It would also get the adult back to being an advisor and not the leader.

[qwazse]

Welcome!

When I was asked to serve as a PA, I told the PL, "I'll be on the opposite side of the room ignoring you. Come to me if you need advice."

He did once or twice that year.

If this is really discouraging to your son, he should talk to the SPL, or even the SM about switching patrols.

It could also be that he is a good teacher, and the PA is nudging him to take more of a role managing the patrol.

As a parent, it's really hard to tell the difference. But, if you think this patrol is indeed being treated like a den (e.g., no effective PL/APL, no flag, no yell, the boys are being challenged to learn stuff -- as opposed to vie against other patrols), you can expect to need long and protracted discussions with the SM and ASMs.

P.S. - If possible, you and Pa Pa may want to offer some property for a patrol overnight. If you two aren't registered leaders, spring to feed the two adults who volunteer to chaperon. Let the boys set up camp a good 100 yards away (less only if it's very wooded). That should give your son a chance to cook up a storm for his mates.

[Chris1]

I suggest he talk to the SPL and perhaps you may want to talk to PA or SM if  this is discouraging your son. 

Even if they are focusing on Tenderfoot requirements someone has to cook. So I see no reason why they wouldn't jump on the chance for someone to cover that duty. 

There IS far more to scouting than advancement. But if he looses his enthusiasm and drive then the troop has failed him. 

[Maxwell17]

He did his BOR and received he 2n class.  He had a conversation with the SPL and he is now set to be the GM. Thanks for the advise, he was able to handle it all on his own.  I am an adult leader and got to do my first BOR, 4 to be exact.  We had 5 scouts up for BOR, 2 tenderfoot, a 1st class, star, and my son 2nd class.

[fred johnson]

PA ... Patrol advisers scare me.  It enables adults to behave as den leaders and creates a perception that patrols need adult mentoring.  Further, it subverts the PL, ASPL, SPL and SM.  The right context is the adults are on the other side of the room and ALWAYS coordinate through the SM.  The SM ALWAYS coordinates through the SPL.  This is the ideal that we constantly adjust for the situation and the scouts.  

GM ??? ... Game master ?  I'm not sure what a GM is.  It's not a position that qualifies for rank advancement.  But then again, he doesn't need a position until he's first class and going for star.

Edited September 12, 2018 by fred johnson

[Maxwell17]

grub master or cook

[fred johnson]

10 minutes ago, Maxwell17 said:

grub master or cook

Ahhh ... For earning first class, that's fine as no position is needed.  For Star and Life, odds are your son is okay.  Sometimes troops "add" roles and it can cause issues when things collapse and people get legalistic.  But, that's very rare.  Especially as the only place the position is reported to BSA national is on the Eagle application. 

Strictly speaking, you can't put down grub master or cook for a rank advancement position.  The official positions that count for rank advancement are ...  Boy Scout troop: Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler* (not for Eagle), junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor, webmaster or outdoor ethics guide.

But if your troop is using it for Star / Life, that's their practice and is unofficial.  If you transfer troops, you may or may not run into an issue.  For Eagle, you need an official position.

==============================

Side note ... Grub master is something that should bounce around on camp outs as patrols cook as a patrol and the only patrol level position that is official is the PL.  Then, the PL creates a duty roster saying who is doing what during the day ... cooking which meal, cleaning, getting water, etc

Edited September 12, 2018 by fred johnson

[Thunderbird]

Grubmaster is a real role in the sense that it is in the Patrol Leader's Handbook.  But like most other patrol positions (Assistant Patrol Leader, Patrol Scribe, Cheermaster, etc.), it does not fulfill the POR requirement for Star, Life, and Eagle.  Patrol Leader is the only patrol position that does qualify as a POR for Star, Life, and Eagle.  It's an important position, though.  After all, somebody's got to do the grocery shopping and cook!  😀

[Maxwell17]

After this camp out he will be ready for his 1st class SMC and BOR.  He will then be looking to get an aproved POR.  He has 17 nights of camping and has 8 MB (4 eagle required).  My original question work itself out last night.  We have an active troop and he's excited about helping the rest of his patrol enjoy as they advance.  I see where some say advancement shouldn't be the main goal and they're right.  He love looking at the requirements and figuring which ones can be done one his trips.