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Eagle1993

Family Scouting Update

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Many volunteers have made the mistake of taking National at their word, when the evidence of National's untrustworthy behavior has frequently been clearly on display.  Exhibit A is the survey and how it was handled.  The "survey" appears to have been hastily rolled out to a select small group of Scouters to justify a previously-made decision.

It is plain to me and many others that there is no need to speculate on whether certain changes will come to pass - that in the immediate or very near future:

Packs and then Troops will become FULLY COED, forced into this by a confluence of pressure from: activists: "separate but equal is not equal" , lawyers/lawsuits, and Nationals' desire to minimize bad publicity. This is a given, and to believe otherwise flies in the face of the past 20 years of history of our organization and others.

And the PROGRAM WILL MORPH INTO A PALE SHADOW OF ITS PREVIOUS SELF as the presence of girls will inevitably change the nature of the events, merit badges, requirements, styles and more. No ecosystem can remain unchanged once a foreign species is introduced into it.

 I have tried to live my life according to the Scout Law, but I do not believe National has been trustworthy.  Their stated claim that Troops will be separately organized, with separate Scoutmasters, YET WILL BE MEETING AT THE SAME PLACE AND TIME, SHARING CAMPOUTS, COURTS OF HONOR, ETC. can not seriously be taken as anything other than deliberate attempts to assuage our current volunteers that the changes will be minor. It is a clear attempt at deception and misdirection that disappoints me deeply.

My Father was a Scout, I and my two brothers are Eagle Scouts, two of my three sons are Eagle Scouts, and the third finished as a Life Scout.  Collectively we have over 95 years as Scouts and volunteers, and I am grateful for the tremendous opportunities to learn and grow as men, and to help others enjoy those opportunities.  I am saddened that the possibility of my grandchildren and great grandchildren, should I be lucky enough to have them, will be foreclosed from the opportunity to enjoy the same benefits and make the same contributions we made to Boy Scouting.

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@codger I agree that the program may change (I do not think females are a foreign species but they are female) but that does not AUTOMATICALLY equate with "morphing into a pale shadow". That seems to be happening, arguably,  quite nicely without the introduction of girls.

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It won't take activists and lawyers to complete the transition to co-ed.  As you point out the structure is largely unworkable, certainly in small areas.  Those units that want to be co-ed will willfully ignore the announced structure, those that would like to stay within the lines will be forced to largely ignore the proposed structure for efficiency and effectiveness.  At the National meeting in 2020 the BSA will announce full co-ed units due to overwhelming experience in the field.

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Update on more girl (and unisex) uniform options.

(Olive green skorts) is on the list.   Adjustments to the blue skort are already in the plans (like pockets).  On the list is also a Capri pant and new unisex shorts made from a performance fabric.
 

 

Edited by Eagle1993

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On 3/11/2018 at 5:34 PM, Eagle1993 said:

@Eagle94-A1

It is one thing to direct your anger at Nationals and the professionals.  It is another when you decide that you can’t even be in the same area as an 11 year old girl who is signed up as a scout.  When I see a scout, regardless of race, gender, politics or background, I would give them a scout handshake and engage in conversation.  Some of the attitudes here are from scouters who may not be able to bring themselves to do that.   When a scouter says he doesn’t even want his scouts to witness a female scout in any sort of official ceremony then it is time for them to leave.  I do not want any child who has joined scouting to feel less than a full member.  You can go ahead and write 100 more paragraphs, I won’t change my stance.

I am just fine teaching girls,different nationalities,  etc. I have done so in church groups, campfire, IWLA, and a wee  bit in Girl Scouts as well as BSA

Right now though I feel ignored ,dismissed, deceived, and belittled. It's pretty obvious that national made up its mind long before they "asked" our opinion in this matter, and the pitiful smokescreen they threw up makes me think they either have a very low opinion of the rank and files intelligence, or they just don't care what we think. 

It seems that every "improvement " (excepting GBB's ) has made it harder and harder to interest the boys.  I find much to my regret and surprise that I (we) have a lot more fun when we just go camping or hiking as a bunch of buddies and leave the uniforms behind.

I owe a great deal to a number of very fine dedicated men who were my mentors and examples when I was a scout.  Years later I made it a point to look them upif I could find them and thank them for the countless hours they invested in us.  To a man every one of them said " Just pay it forward.  That is all the thanks I need."

So I tried. But Ive been a scouter for over 25 years now.  11 years longer than I was a Scout.  I think perhaps the debt is paid in full. I wish I could sit down with them over a cold ale or hot coffee and ask them what they think, but they are all gone home now.

So when I got an e-mail today telling me that I had to take the new YPT.  by Oct first, I thought of all the new headaches and protocols  and thought   " Screw it, I just dont need this,  I'm gonna go hike some of the AT.  or maybe finish up the last bit of the C&O canal"

Maybe I'll invite some friends to come along and share a drop or two o' Bushmills

@SSScout  ,  how about it?

Edited by RememberSchiff
added @ signall to SSScout
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Thank you for all you have done for the Scouts and for Scouting.

For the little it's worth - I don't think National was trying to disrespect us.  I think they just handled it poorly.

 

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8 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

... So when I got an e-mail today telling me that I had to take the new YPT.  by Oct first, I thought of all the new headaches and protocols  and thought   " Screw it, I just dont need this,  I'm gonna go hike some of the AT.  or maybe finish up the last bit of the C&O canal"...

Yep. I'm not a fan of the new training regimen. I think we lost something significant when so much became "... in the comfort of your home ..." rather than "... at your next roundtable ..." or "... with our trainer at meeting hall ...".

As much as it was a hassle, you got some fellowship out of the deal. And, sometimes that included an invite to an awesome hike.

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OldScout448,   you know where to find me, methinks.... PM me if you must.  C&O sounds good, regardless.  Scoutson will come.   Woodlawn Manor to start? 

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13 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Update on more girl (and unisex) uniform options.

(Olive green skorts) is on the list.   Adjustments to the blue skort are already in the plans (like pockets).  On the list is also a Capri pant and new unisex shorts made from a performance fabric.

Really? No pockets in the skort?!  Didn't they realize that girls would want pockets, just like the boys?  I hope they don't feminize other aspects of the program to "accommodate" the girls.

Just last week I heard a group of 6th-8th girls complaining that it was no good that girls' pants (unlike boys' pants) don't have pockets.

And really, at the cub age, the girls can wear exactly the same clothes as the boys, anyway.

 

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6 hours ago, Treflienne said:

Really? No pockets in the skort?!  Didn't they realize that girls would want pockets, just like the boys?  I hope they don't feminize other aspects of the program to "accommodate" the girls.

Just last week I heard a group of 6th-8th girls complaining that it was no good that girls' pants (unlike boys' pants) don't have pockets.

And really, at the cub age, the girls can wear exactly the same clothes as the boys, anyway.

 

I'm all for tailoring the uniforms so they for better - but things like skorts, no pockets, and capri pants just seem odd.

 

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21 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I'm all for tailoring the uniforms so they for better - but things like skorts, no pockets, and capri pants just seem odd.

 

Actually, I'm all for the skorts....just wish they had plentiful pockets!!!  They do offer a bit more modesty for the older girls, since shorts can often be more form-fitting in the rear for some girls.  And whether its good or bad, girls changing bodies have more difficulty fitting clothes.  Boys have it lucky....find shorts with the right waist measurements, and you are good to go.  My daughter was trying out uniform pants in August last year....had to try three sizes just to get her waist and hips to fit properly. ...and she was just entering 6th grade.  Skorts can be designed to be more forgiving in some areas....and less attention on the rear.  

Also, some girls really do start their period early.  The average is now under 12 years, so its conceivable that some 10-11 year olds will have their period while in cub scouts.  Consider this when someone asks why a woman has to be there for a campout of girls....I doubt many male den leaders and scouters are prepared for that conversation if it hits at the wrong time (or the first time), if they have not already had a daughter!

Also, younger girls (under 16) when they do get their period are more than likely going to be wearing pads rather than tampons....the ability of a skort to hide the visability of such an item is way better than the alternatives.  And skorts do not hinder movement!  There are ultra marathon runners who run in sport skirts (aka skorts).

Capri pants, however, serve no additional purpose.  My daughter would much prefer the convertible dri fit pants any day.

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17 minutes ago, David CO said:

TMI

And you are not unique to a lot of men....which is exactly why a woman has to be at a campsite when girls are there.

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