Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

[NJCubScouter]

  On 4/19/2018 at 2:05 PM, qwazse said:

Just to remind everyone that the last I heard this was to apply across all programs for all meetings and activities. Advisors of co-ed crews, brace for impact.

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Unlike our current U.N. ambassador, I get confused sometimes, and I am confused now.  Are we talking about who can/must be a LEADER (as in, registered leader), or what combination of adults must be present on outdoor activities, or both?  Coed Venture crews have always been required to have at least one adult of each gender present on outings, right?  What would be new?  That at least one woman would have to be registered as Associate Adviser (or Adviser)?

[qwazse]

  On 4/19/2018 at 2:56 PM, NJCubScouter said:

Unlike our current U.N. ambassador, I get confused sometimes, and I am confused now.  Are we talking about who can/must be a LEADER (as in, registered leader), or what combination of adults must be present on outdoor activities, or both?  Coed Venture crews have always been required to have at least one adult of each gender present on outings, right?  What would be new?  That at least one woman would have to be registered as Associate Adviser (or Adviser)?

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Overnight outings, yes. Nothing new there.

Meetings and activities, no. I've had plenty of meetings with female youth in the room when only male adults were present.

[Eagle94-A1]

Have not seen the new YPT2 training, but if it using the policies that the EA Cub Scout dens are following, and as reported by others who met with a national level person and asked about this, then YES, meetings with girls present will also require a registered female over 21 in attendance.  Why I do not like the double standard that 2 females can work with all male dens, but not two males.

[an_old_DC]

  On 4/19/2018 at 8:10 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Have not seen the new YPT2 training, but if it using the policies that the EA Cub Scout dens are following, and as reported by others who met with a national level person and asked about this, then YES, meetings with girls present will also require a registered female over 21 in attendance.  Why I do not like the double standard that 2 females can work with all male dens, but not two males.

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This is what I am hearing too. 

[Eagle1993]

Further info.  For packs that have girl youth members, either the Cubmaster or Assistant Cubmaster must be female.  In addition, each girl den must have a female Den Leader or Assistant Den Leader.

[Jameson76]

  On 4/20/2018 at 12:12 AM, Eagle1993 said:

Further info.  For packs that have girl youth members, either the Cubmaster or Assistant Cubmaster must be female.  In addition, each girl den must have a female Den Leader or Assistant Den Leader.

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Interesting.  If a pack has boys does either the Cubmaster or Assistant Cubmaster have to be male?

[Eagle94-A1]

  On 4/20/2018 at 12:22 AM, Jameson76 said:

Interesting.  If a pack has boys does either the Cubmaster or Assistant Cubmaster have to be male?

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According to all the stuff provided to EA packs, the answer "NO."  That is why I keep saying BSA has begun a double standard. Id doesn't matter if no males are with the boys, but a female MUST be with the girls. Why i am also concerend about "Linked Troops" meeting and camping together, no female no meeting or camping

[NJCubScouter]

  On 4/20/2018 at 12:12 AM, Eagle1993 said:

For packs that have girl youth members, either the Cubmaster or Assistant Cubmaster must be female.  

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Where do you get that from?

[Eagle1993]

  On 4/20/2018 at 3:32 AM, NJCubScouter said:

Where do you get that from?

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I’m a member of a Facebook group (Cub Scout Pack early adopters) and the National Director for Cub Scouts recorded a video answering some questions regarding the upcoming program.  This info was sent to professionals this week.  The group admins asked that the video not be shared but I didn’t see an issue sharing some of the key updates as this could be useful for other Packs.  

[Eagle1993]

  On 4/20/2018 at 1:34 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

According to all the stuff provided to EA packs, the answer "NO."  That is why I keep saying BSA has begun a double standard. Id doesn't matter if no males are with the boys, but a female MUST be with the girls. Why i am also concerend about "Linked Troops" meeting and camping together, no female no meeting or camping

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This was not mentioned (either way) but I tend to agree with you that I don’t see this as a coming requirement.  I think they should make this a requirement and can only speculate why they didn’t.  

[Eagle1993]

Oh, I’ll add that people are losing their minds on the FB page right now.  They turned comments off on the video and are waiting for responses to a number of questions.  Biggest one is if a DL/ADL can also serve as CM/ACM.   

[Eagle94-A1]

  On 4/20/2018 at 10:54 AM, Eagle1993 said:

This was not mentioned (either way) but I tend to agree with you that I don’t see this as a coming requirement.  I think they should make this a requirement and can only speculate why they didn’t.  

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While not mentioned in the video, it is in the PowerPoint that went out back in December/January. I posted a screen capture of the slide stating that a registered female DL or ADL will be required for an all girl den, but a male DL or ADL is not required for an all boy den. In fact someone on FB asked why a male DL or ADL is not required for an all boy den prior to comments being shut off. If I can find the link tot he other thread with the screen capture, I'll post.

[Eagle94-A1]

Found the video where National says there are no changes for all boy dens. 5:40 mark is the slide. screen capture below the link.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

  On 4/20/2018 at 11:03 AM, Eagle1993 said:

Oh, I’ll add that people are losing their minds on the FB page right now.  They turned comments off on the video and are waiting for responses to a number of questions.  Biggest one is if a DL/ADL can also serve as CM/ACM.   

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That's because National is changing the rules, and it appears that it is to accommodate the girls. Since August 1, 1989, there has not been a gender requirement for any registered volunteer position, whether working with Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorers, Cub Scouts, Varsity Scouts, or Venturers. For those coed groups you needed any female over 21. They did not need to be registered however.

Now you need a the CM or ACM to be female AND a female DL or ADL for each girl den. But no such requirement exists for fro a MAle CM or ACM and Male DL or ADL for a male den.

[Eagle1993]

  On 4/20/2018 at 11:36 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Found the video where National says there are no changes for all boy dens. 5:40 mark is the slide. screen capture below the link.

 

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The biggest complaint is that in that pitch you only need a YPT adult female.  Most of the time that is easy as you simply have moms YPT and make sure one stays for meetings.  Now for the full rollout we need female DL/ADL.  So this is a change from the pitch above.

The complaints are breaking down into:

- this is a change from the EA program that comes as a surprise 

- you cannot have adult leaders serve in multiple roles adding to the burden of finding new leaders 

- inconsistent with how boys are treated 

I’m curious how National will respond.