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NBC-WSJ Poll on BSA 10/11 decision

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My boys only just got smart phones and when they were Life Scouts. But yes it could be done....geez our High School has student body elections using the Supervisor of Elections old polling stations. It could be done but it wasn't and never will be, now. 


Why, who knows? Practicality--there is a good argument for that. Maybe. Cost-surely an issue...National seems to be spendthrifts compared to many local units. And cash flow seems an issue for them. Fear of results? Could be...and THAT would be a good reason to just avoid it.


At this point, good or bad, the die has been cast. I do not think any Scout or Scouter opposition uprising is going to change the decision. We will all have to see how many feet walk away and how many walk in. 

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Back Pack, thank you for your insight. On the whole you "get" the intention of the program. Keep the faith.

For those who wish to view the progression of scouting, one has to go back and look at the whole picture.   Generally speaking the first 50 years of scouting, the program grew into a powerhouse boy'

Certainly you can do that, but what you get voting are those that feel particularly strongly one way or the other about it. And the result may not be representative. So you may say to that well if the

I think you missed his point as I read it. Most phones have internet so by default they have access to any web survey. The internet access you mention is old fashioned pc in the living room type access. If you look at other ways to access internet even poor people have access. Equal access does not mean everyone has to have internet in their home. It means they need to have access no matter the method. You seem hung up on access in the home.




No, I got the point. The data I posted is still relevant:


the census data find that nearly 25 million households (21%) have no regular internet access at all, either at home or elsewhere.



That includes smart phones.


More relevant data:




Smartphone users skew more toward older teens with 76% of 15- to 17-year-olds having a smartphone, compared with 68% of 13- to 14-year-olds. About a third of teens (30%) have a “basic†cell phone that is not a smartphone...


While 77% of teens whose families earn more than $50,000 a year have a smartphone, two-thirds (64%) of teens from families earning less than that own one. Those teens with lower incomes are the most likely to have a basic cell phone — with 39% of teens from households earning less than $30,000 annually reporting basic cell ownership compared with 28% of teens from households earning more.


dismissing the other ways people can access the internet is a straw man.



I didn't dismiss it, I very specifically addressed it by posting data as I did above. Many households have "no regular internet access at all, either at home or elsewhere." With respect, I don't know what is unclear about that phrase that would lead anyone to think it is any way a logical fallacy.


Telling a poor Tenderfoot without home internet access that they need to go to a library to vote their opinion and be active participant in Scouts is BAD POLICY and we should not encourage a program that effectively discriminates against scouts based on the their socio-economic conditions.

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@@Hawkwin, I am going to let this just drop. You are missing the point and trying to make your own point using different data and arguments. That's actually the very definition of a straw man which has been pointed out. No matter.


I will say this. The Census data shows that a majority of low income households have access to cell phones, TV, cable, DVD/DVR and internet. That's pretty clear data. Making any potential survey available online does not disenfranchise anyone, no more than lack of a car (but availability of public transport) makes access to Scout meetings a burden. If a poor kid can't get the survey at his home there's always his phone, an friend's phone, school computer, library computer, internet cafe or borrowing his SM's laptop at a meeting. Point being, if there's a will there's a way. Period.


Your point about using the library is absurd. If he's a member of a troop he may to go to the library to do MB research. Is THAT "bad policy"? Should BSA give every poor kid free MB pamphlets? C'mon! Just like school or sports, Scouting takes some work. Eagle takes a TON of work. Poor or not, no one is going to spoon feed anyone. Plenty of poor kids got through Scouting just fine without having Scouting's "bad policies" affect them.


What's next? Urban kids hate to camp so let's reduce the number of camping nights? (<===== Warning: THAT was a straw man)


Feel free to continue. I am done on this issue.

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@@backpack. I think he used “ ...did just..†which is a bit different than “just didâ€. I believe 47 years is a long time even for the old guys on this forum (I’m not sure if I’m counting myself as an old guy just yet).


As far as the great survey debate... I am 100% sure the organization that spent $400m+ to clear a mountain top to make a camp could have figured out how to survey all of its members (youth and or adult). They didn’t want to. They said so in the various videos that they only wanted input from those that attended their meetings.


I’m generally in favor of this change but I don’t believe the BSA really wanted its members input. Their final proposal was nearly identical to what they had before the sessions began. I just wish they came out and said... “we are broke, girls have been asking to get in for 83 years so if your Pack/Troop is interested go ahead, if not don’t.†I’m not a fan of groups stating they are taking input but then clearly ignoring it.


I’m rooting for this to work (for all units, both boy only and coed/girl) as I’d like BSA to be around for the future, but their role out of this was poor.

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For those who wish to view the progression of scouting, one has to go back and look at the whole picture.


Generally speaking the first 50 years of scouting, the program grew into a powerhouse boy's program.


The second 50 years?  Well, let's just leave it at that.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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