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John-in-KC

OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

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http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/bsa_charter_and_bylaws.pdf

There are no free market forces involved at BSA. It is a rigged system.

 

I have no idea who these board members are or how they are selected. All I know is that they seem to rubber stamp anything the execs put in front of them. 

 

BSA doesn't hire from outside. You know that.

 

Feel free to familiarize yourself ...

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/bsa_charter_and_bylaws.pdf

http://www.scouting.org/cebo.aspx

 

You could also attend council board meetings.

Or, invite acting or former council/area presidents to camp with your troop for a couple of nights.

 

I'm not saying you get top job that day, but after a few years as a DE putting in 60 hour weeks, folks might begin think you're in for the pound.

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I am seeing lots of angry push back in the news and on non-scouting message boards from the general public and from women in my town about the BSA's decision to allow girls to join has not gone far enough.

 

There is a lot of anger that the girl boy scouts will be segregated into girl only troops.  There is a hard push now to mix girls in with the boys in the same way schools are a mix of boys and girls. . . after all boy scouts do is camp and learn to tie knots and girls can do that right along side of the boys.  . .

  

Edited by cocomax

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... the girl boy scouts... 

 

Yet another reason why, if they were going to do this, they should have waited until they had an actual program in place, with an actual name.  At this point "girl boy scouts" is probably the most logical thing to call this nameless hypothetical program and its hypothetical future members, but it sounds ridiculous.

 

I realize that doesn't answer the issue you are writing about, but I don't have an answer.

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Yet another reason why, if they were going to do this, they should have waited until they had an actual program in place, with an actual name.  At this point "girl boy scouts" is probably the most logical thing to call this nameless hypothetical program and its hypothetical future members, but it sounds ridiculous.

 

I realize that doesn't answer the issue you are writing about, but I don't have an answer.

 

If given my choice, I would simply have us call them Boy Scouts.

 

If we do something silly and call them girl Boy Scouts then by default, we would also have boy Boy Scouts. The double modifier is silly and cumbersome; and unnecessary.

 

 

I was in a co-ed business fraternity in college. The term fraternity refers to a male organization. My chapter was 70% female. The term we had for members, like any other fraternity, was "brother." Every young woman in our business fraternity was officially referred to as "Brother [last name]." It is fair to assume that with 70% of the organization being female, they were accepting of such language. They knew when they joined that such was the terminology.

 

Since there appears to be a very strong desire for many girls and their parents to join Boy Scouts, I would change nothing about the terms. My daughter will hopefully be nothing more and nothing less than a "Boy Scout." I see no reason at all that she need be identified with any additional gender terminology.

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If given my choice, I would simply have us call them Boy Scouts.

 

If we do something silly and call them girl Boy Scouts then by default, we would also have boy Boy Scouts. The double modifier is silly and cumbersome; and unnecessary.

 

 

I was in a co-ed business fraternity in college. The term fraternity refers to a male organization. My chapter was 70% female. The term we had for members, like any other fraternity, was "brother." Every young woman in our business fraternity was officially referred to as "Brother [last name]." It is fair to assume that with 70% of the organization being female, they were accepting of such language. They knew when they joined that such was the terminology.

 

Since there appears to be a very strong desire for many girls and their parents to join Boy Scouts, I would change nothing about the terms. My daughter will hopefully be nothing more and nothing less than a "Boy Scout." I see no reason at all that she need be identified with any additional gender terminology.

 

I didn't actually mean to suggest that "Girl Boy Scouts" could be the name that would actually be adopted.  Just that when we are talking about the "new program" for Boy-Scout-age girls, "Girl Boy Scouts" is as good a placeholder as any.  As for the need for a new name, I'm just assuming that since BSA National seems to be planning to create a "new program", that program is going to have a new name as well.  There is already a "Boy Scouts" program.  But we shall see.  The new name actually isn't very important to me, as long as it isn't something ridiculous.  I have been trying to think of one but have not come up with anything that isn't ridiculous or already in use in this country.  Well, actually one:  Girl Guides, but I don't think they are going to use that one.

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http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/bsa_charter_and_bylaws.pdf Feel free to familiarize yourself ...

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/bsa_charter_and_bylaws.pdf

http://www.scouting.org/cebo.aspx

 

You could also attend council board meetings.

Or, invite acting or former council/area presidents to camp with your troop for a couple of nights.

 

I'm not saying you get top job that day, but after a few years as a DE putting in 60 hour weeks, folks might begin think you're in for the pound.

 

I know what the rules say. I also have been around long enough to know that this is not how it actually works. The rules and bylaws are a sham.

 

Chicago learned this a while back. When the units rejected the execs hand picked slate, national threatened to pull their council charter. Now, nobody rejects national's hand picked slates.

 

The council boards are chosen by the execs at national. I just don't know how they go about it.

Edited by David CO
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Yet another reason why, if they were going to do this, they should have waited until they had an actual program in place, with an actual name.  At this point "girl boy scouts" is probably the most logical thing to call this nameless hypothetical program and its hypothetical future members, but it sounds ridiculous.

 

I realize that doesn't answer the issue you are writing about, but I don't have an answer.

 Yes, but you know if they had decided to keep the announcement under wraps until they had a detailed program they thunder we hear would have been just as loud, only withe the subject of why were we not included in developing the program and similar arguments..

 

Besides even if no one on the committee were to leak the information (which I doubt), as soon as planning started and the circle of those in the know grew, it certainly would have come out.

 

How does it go? The only way 3 people can keep a secret is if 2 of them are dead. I would have taken the next day in the office pool for how long it would take before the info was leaked. I also imagine I would have lost to someone that picked an earlier time.

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Things are very confused right now, last week I was asked while at the grocery store by someone who knows I am a scouter, who heard girls are joining Boy Scouts. 

 

            "Will the Girl Boy Scouts be selling cookies this year as well as popcorn?"

 

That honest question from a member of the public sums things up pretty well.   Since national has failed to actually name the new girls program the general public has been calling it the by the logical name of Girl Boy Scouts, I hear that all the time when people ask me about the new changes in Boy Scouts.

 

        I get asked, "When can my daughter sign up with the Boy Scouts?"

 

After I explain that it will be an as of yet unnamed girl only program that is separate from the Boy Scouts coming in 2019 I then most of the time get asked.

 

       "Will the current scout master be the leader of the Girl Boy Scouts?"

 

        or

 

        "Won't the Girls get to do stuff with the Boys?"

 

        or

 

        "If you have a troops of all girls with moms leading won't it end up all messed up like the Girl Scouts, the last few Girl Scout troops we had in town broke up quickly due to "mommy drama", shouldn't the Boy Scout troop run this new program since they have been around for more than 50 years with no drama issues to speak of?"    

 

I have to honestly tell them, I have no idea what is happening yet. The girl's program has not been written yet.

 

   Then I generally get asked.

 

"Why do the Girl Boy Scouts need a different program, why cant they just use the Boy Scout program as it is? Why can't the Girls just join the Boy Scout Troops, wouldn't that be easier?" 

       

      

 

 

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 Yes, but you know if they had decided to keep the announcement under wraps until they had a detailed program they thunder we hear would have been just as loud, only withe the subject of why were we not included in developing the program and similar arguments.

 

I do know that.  And apparently, BSA knows it (or something like it) too, NOW.  But a few months ago, BSA National didn't seem to know that.  On the "May video" CSE Surbaugh says that the membership change in Cub Scouts is not going to be rolled out until there is a "parallel program" or "partner program" in place for older (10-11+) girls.  Which would have made sense, because the BSA is well aware that they will need a place for girls aging out of Webelos to go. In the "October video", suddenly now the Cub Scout change will occur for the "2018 program year" (June 1? Sept. 1?) but the "next program" will only be announced in 2018 with a TARGET date of sometime in 2019 for implementation.

 

While the year-or-more gap between the two changes will not be a problem for most girls, it will be a problem for some.  If a girl happens to be, say 10 years and 3 months old on the day Cub Scouts is opened to girls, she can join a Webelos den, but she is most likely going to turn 11 before there is actually a BSA program that she can "cross over" to.  Unless they Cub Scout change takes effect Sept. 1 2018 and the "new program" opens up, say, Jan. 1 2019, but that timing seems very unlikely to me.  (And even then there are some girls who will be caught in the "gap", but the number is smaller and therefore more manageable.  And I realize that all of this assumes that girls actually do want to join the Cub Scouts, which we will find out soon enough.)

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Then I generally get asked.

 

"Why do the Girl Boy Scouts need a different program, why cant they just use the Boy Scout program as it is? Why can't the Girls just join the Boy Scout Troops, wouldn't that be easier?" 

 

There actually is an answer to that question, but it is not one that is going to satisfy the people who are asking it, since those people do not seem to have a problem with the idea of "coed" Boy Scout troops.  The answer is that there are so many existing BSA Scouters (and Scouts) who DO have a problem with the idea of "coed" Boy Scout troops that there (probably) would be a mass exodus of members from the BSA, which would way more than offset the number of girls joining.  And then the ship really does start sinking, perhaps irreparably.  National is gambling that what they have just announced will NOT have the same effect.  But as I said, the people who think "coed" would be "easier" are not going to "get" that answer.

Edited by NJCubScouter
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Why do they need to develop a new girl's program?   If the girl's are going to be eagles why can't the girl's just use the existing boy's program?

 

Step 1: Come up with a name for the Girl's program.

 

Step 2: Girls can use the existing Boy's program materials with no changes.

 

Step 3:  Make a Girls application form

 

Step 4:  Start forming Girl Only Troops

 

Done 

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There actually is an answer to that question, but it is not one that is going to satisfy the people who are asking it, since those people do not seem to have a problem with the idea of "coed" Boy Scout troops.  The answer is that there are so many existing BSA Scouters (and Scouts) who DO have a problem with the idea of "coed" Boy Scout troops that there (probably) would be a mass exodus of members from the BSA, which would way more than offset the number of girls joining.  And then the ship really does start sinking, perhaps irreparably.  National is gambling that what they have just announced will NOT have the same effect.  But as I said, the people who think "coed" would be "easier" are not going to "get" that answer.

Or he could answer with the company line, "Like the GSUSA, the BSA believes in the value of single-gender programming while reaching the entire family.  So, we've decided to make our program of character development available to girls while maintaining the benefit of single-gender programming."  Try not to roll your eyes while saying it......

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Once more I suggest that we move forward with "flexibility" and an open mind, working to resolve things as they arise if the initial thoughts did not address an issue.  Making the jump that most adults of any tenure and maturity, in and out of Scouting, are capable of analysis an reasoning.  Like any major change in a program or enterprise, things come up that were not predicted, but the rational managers reexamine and find a way to move forward.  In BSA, when the younger boy issue was first being confronted, there were all sorts of starts and stops and rearranging.  Senior programs have seen numerous tests and experiments, some which worked and thrived, others that have disappeared, such as Rovers and Rangers, and more recently, of course, Varsity.  The "Negro" challenge was there from the start if you read early material and histories.  It took decades for it to evolve to the point where it is normally no longer a problem of any extent.  

 

The expectation that we can move seamlessly into a change of this magnitude, especially in this age of instant announcements, even when not planned, is impossible.  Evolution is slow most of the time, yet if given time, it seems to more often than not get from A to B or additional points eventually.  But the initial image of the end result is seldom what it was at the beginning.

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Or he could answer with the company line, "Like the GSUSA, the BSA believes in the value of single-gender programming while reaching the entire family.  So, we've decided to make our program of character development available to girls while maintaining the benefit of single-gender programming."  Try not to roll your eyes while saying it......

 

why roll your eyes?  I've heard many actual Girl Scouts and Girl Scout alums, not GS brass, state that they are/were proud of the all-girl GS program, having a place were girls could learn to be women in a sisterhood environment. 

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Interesting Op Ed piece by Sylvia Acevedo, a rocket scientist, entrepreneur, executive and lifelong Girl Scout, is CEO of Girl Scouts of the USA

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/2017/10/24/girls-star-in-girl-scouts-supporting-players-again-in-boy-scouts-sylvia-acevedo-column/790244001/

 

Some quotes - 

 

"We believe strongly in the importance of the safe, all-girl, girl-led and girl-friendly environment that Girl Scouts provides. "

 

"At Girl Scouts, girls aren’t the ancillary tag-along or supporting player — they are the central character."

 

"strong female role models show them they can be anything they want to be."

 

Interesting that if a current member of Boy Scouts posits the same thoughts (change out Boy for Girl and Male for Female) then that person is perhaps a conditional scout or not embracing of change.  Possibly not demonstrating the Oath and Law sufficiently

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