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robert12

2017 Guide to Advancement released

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The 2017 revision of the Guide to Advancement has been released.  

 

No real big changes, other than the separation of Sea Scouts from Venturing, the most welcome changes/clarifications in my mind:

 

4.2.3.1: Added clarifcation that a Scout must be given credit for active participation time even if a unit takes time off during the summer or any other time of the year

4.2.3.4.3: Added clarifcation that the Scout must be given credit for time served in a position of responsibility even if a unit takes time off during the summer or any other time of the year.

8.0.0.2: Added clarifcation that a board of review cannot be denied or postponed due to nonrequirement reasons such as uniforming or delinquent dues payments.

8.0.3.2: Added clarifcation that a Scout and his parents or guardians must be informed of the right to a board of review under disputed circumstances.

8.0.1.0: Added clarifcation that board members should recuse themselves if they cannot be fair and impartial.

9.0.2.8: Added that signatures on a Scout’s service project report need not be dated before his 18th birthday.

 

 

www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

Edited by robert12
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These are interesting clarifications.

 

4.2.3.5: Added clarifcation that unit leaders cannot require a Scout to provide certain documentation as a precondition to a unit leader (Scoutmaster) conference.

 

4.2.3.6: Clarifed that counting service hours provided elsewhere in the community is not “double counting†and they should be counted toward advancement.

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9.0.2.8: Added that signatures on a Scout’s service project report need not be dated before his 18th birthday.

 

There seems to be a growing list of things that do NOT have to be done before the 18th birthday.  At the time my son made Eagle about 8 years ago the council was insisting that the application had to be in before the 18th birthday.  From what I have read elsewhere in this forum they can't do that anymore.  Now the Eagle project workbook can be signed after the birthday.  I hope that somewhere there is a clear list of what does and does not have to be done before the birthday.

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There's nothing in the GTA that says a scout has to wait until his 18th birthday to have it all done.  He could just target say his 17th birthday and then enjoy wearing the rank for a year and not have to worry about all the last minute hassle.  I sometimes tire of hearing all the "Woe is me" stories about how the scout has all kinds of trouble because he waited too long.  He's had 7 years to figure this out.

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If I read this right, we can only encourage scouts to wear their uniform.  It sounds like one method "advancement" is not supporting another method "uniform".

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Very few scouts wear a uniform anyway.  Usually it's piece-meal at best and definitely untucked at worst.  Uniforming may be a method, but like the patrol method, it's not universally accepted..

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If I read this right, we can only encourage scouts to wear their uniform.  It sounds like one method "advancement" is not supporting another method "uniform".

As has been true for many years.  Use of the uniform is encouraged or strongly encouraged.  Like advancement, it is a method - a tool - not a goal or objective.  A good person and citizen is that still in uniform or out, Scout or Eagle, and that is the place we want to end up.  

 

2015 Guide to Advancement (and for years before that)

8.0.0.2 Boards of Review Must Be Granted When Requirements Are Met

 

Except in disputed circumstances as noted in "Initiating Eagle Scout Board of Review Under Disputed Circumstances," 8.0.3.2, the Scout or his parents or guardians shall not be responsible for requesting that a board take place.

8.0.0.4 Wearing the Uniform—or Neat in Appearance

It is preferred a Scout be in full field uniform for any board of review. He should wear as much of it as he owns, and it should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly. It may be the uniform as the members of his troop, team, crew, or ship wear it. If wearing all or part of the uniform is impractical for whatever reason, the candidate should be clean and neat in his appearance and dressed appropriately, according to his means, for the milestone marked by the occasion. Regardless of unit, district, or council expectations or rules, boards of review shall not reject candidates solely for reasons related to uniforming or attire, as long as they are dressed to the above description. Candidates shall not be required to purchase uniforming or clothing such as coats and ties to participate in a board of review.

Edited by TAHAWK
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There's nothing in the GTA that says a scout has to wait until his 18th birthday to have it all done.  He could just target say his 17th birthday and then enjoy wearing the rank for a year and not have to worry about all the last minute hassle.  I sometimes tire of hearing all the "Woe is me" stories about how the scout has all kinds of trouble because he waited too long.  He's had 7 years to figure this out.

 

There is a difference between what would happen in an ideal world, or even a better world, and what the actual requirement is.  The rules should be clear and, if you'll pardon the expression, uniform.  Whether a Scout makes Eagle should not depend on some council staffer's interpretation of what has to be in before the 18th birthday.  It should all be clearly set out.  Do you disagree that it should all be clearly set out?

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Very few scouts wear a uniform anyway.  Usually it's piece-meal at best and definitely untucked at worst.  Uniforming may be a method, but like the patrol method, it's not universally accepted..

The Patrol Method is mostly not allowed by adults in Scouting.  Most, for example, appoint the theoretical leaders and themselves directly lead the Scouts.  

 

That state of things is hardly a shock given that BSA has failed for decades to explain its "most important method" in any single list, chapter, article, training session, or entire training course.  (Wood Badge is said to teach the method solely by "demonstrating" it  -- without explanation or guidance and solely by showing the staff, by analogy the adults, in near total control throughout almost all aspects of the course.)  

 

Indeed, the troop receives the overwhelming emphasis in current BSA literature.  To point out one example that ought to be shocking, there is a total lack of any mention of patrol program-planning when a Scout, according to BSA elsewhere and to this date, is supposed to primarily experience Scouting int he context of the patrol to which he belongs, not the troop to which the patrol belongs.  Many here could give examples.

 

And all this in spite of the fact that there are certainly professional Scouters who understand and support the Patrol Method, having experienced it as Scouts and, in some cases, by using it as Scoutmasters.

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There seems to be a growing list of things that do NOT have to be done before the 18th birthday.  At the time my son made Eagle about 8 years ago the council was insisting that the application had to be in before the 18th birthday.  From what I have read elsewhere in this forum they can't do that anymore.  Now the Eagle project workbook can be signed after the birthday.  I hope that somewhere there is a clear list of what does and does not have to be done before the birthday.

 

Here is the list that shows what has to be completed by the scouts 18th birthday, if it's not on the list then it can be completed afterwards.

 

9.0.1.1 Complete All the Requirements

Confirm that the following requirements have been completed before the 18th birthday: active participation, Scout spirit, merit badges, position of responsibility, service project, and unit leader conference. Note that the unit leader (Scoutmaster) conference need not be the last item accomplished. The board of review may be conducted after the 18th birthday. For details, see “Boards of Review,†8.0.0.0. A candidate must be registered through the time he is completing requirements but need not be registered thereafter or when his board of review is conducted.

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I think they were good clarifications. My Troop tried pre-Scout Master Conference forms that went down (as they should have been) like Lead Zeppelins. Why do so many adults feel like they need to 'improve' the programs by forms, forms, forms. Bores so many boys to tears.

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There seems to be a growing list of things that do NOT have to be done before the 18th birthday.  At the time my son made Eagle about 8 years ago the council was insisting that the application had to be in before the 18th birthday.  From what I have read elsewhere in this forum they can't do that anymore.  Now the Eagle project workbook can be signed after the birthday.  I hope that somewhere there is a clear list of what does and does not have to be done before the birthday.

 

I view these less as clarifications and definitely not change in expectations.  IMHO, the changes explicitly state what should have already been clearly read.  

 

For example you cite, the project is required before being 18.  That's the requirement.  The adult signature is paperwork.  If the scout had his project done before turning 18 but did not get the scoutmaster or beneficiary signature before turning 18, it should not be a wall stopping the scout from getting Eagle.  

 

I think this is a good consistent clarification.  The scout's journey of advancement (learning and doing) is to be done before turning 18.  Paperwork.  Rank advancement submittal.  BORs.  etc.  Can happen after you turn 18.  

 

The real issue is the council you reference requiring paperwork being submitted before the scout turns 18.  That was never a national requirement ... in the last fifteen years that I know.  I pray it was never the grounds for a scout not earning Eagle.

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this whole "uniform for BOR" thing is interesting to me.  Our CC and generally our troop "culture" is full uniform for BOR.

 

I sat on once where we sat and waiting for the scout, who was scrambling to borrow another scout's belt (and maybe necker and socks)

I was very uncomfortable with the idea that "we" were making this scout jump through those silly hoops, and while I didn't make a federal case of it I believe that I sad so to the board while we were waiting....  

I would have much rather have just run the board, and maybe steered a few questions his way about the uniform he's wearing..... just to provoke some thought and discussion.

 

We do some other things too that I don't really care for, such as making the scout stand the whole time...

 

hummm, come to think of it I think that may have been one of the last boards I did and it was a while ago. 

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@@blw2, Our new advancement chair is an engineer. He's already digested the BOR section and is revamping a few things to come more in to compliance with the GTA. I'd say 98% of what we do was compliant. A few things, like uniform, were not...though the uniform remains heavily suggested.

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We do some other things too that I don't really care for, such as making the scout stand the whole time...

 

Just when I thought I'd heard everything.  We ask the Scout to stand at the beginning, give the Scout sign and recite the Oath and/or Law, but other than that the Scout is seated.  It doesn't sound very reasonable to require the Scout to stand during the entire BOR.

  

I looked at the GTA (section 8.0.1.0) and it does not say anything about making Scouts stand during a BOR - though now that this has appeared in "print" maybe it will find its way into the 2019 version - but it does say this:

 

 

 

A certain level of formality and meaningful questioning should exist, but it is important that the atmosphere be relaxed and that the review is conducted with the Scout Law in mind.

 

Having the Scout stand does not sound like a very "relaxed atmosphere" to me.  Well, unless EVERYBODY is standing, but I assume that is not the case.

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