How long is too long to wait for Board of Review

[Hedgehog 334]

SM conferences must be scheduled a week in advance.

 

BORs can be done the same week as SM conferences or the following week.

 

EBORs are scheduled by council and take up to a month after the paperwork is approved.

 

Honestly, our committee is a disaster as far as advancement is concerned.  

 

 

That just represents a complete misunderstanding of the purpose of a BOR which is to see how the program is working for the scout.  

 

Sorry ... There is what BSA teaches and there is what many troops do.  It can be drastically different.  

 

Unfortunately.

[scoutldr 726]

How in the world did any of us make it to Eagle without an "Eagle Advisor"?  I am on the District EBOR team.  The Unit CC sets the date with as much lead time as possible, then asks for a District Rep.  I would say 90% of the time, one of us can be there.  There have been a few times when I had four hours notice because someone else had to cancel, but if my schedule is clear, I will bend over backwards to make it work.  Everyone needs to be considerate of each others' time commitments and give as much lead time as possible.

[Krampus 696]

"on-demand", "instant recognition" ...God forbid we teach patience as we once did. Not how things transpire in the real world, well except maybe getting pulled over instantly for speeding. Safety and disciplinary issues are handled in that manner in our unit. Our BOR's tend to be monthly and not flexible as the committee members have other commitments.

 

Agree totally. On demand SMCs/BORs just feed that instant gratification gene we are developing in kids now a days.

 

I *do* think there is difference between "on demand" and instant recognition. Our unit puts the onus on the boys to schedule their SMC/BOR by looking at the troop calendar and coordinating with adults on when this works best. We've made it somewhat easier on them as they know when SMCs (twice a month) and BORs (once a month) will be held. After each BOR the boys do immediately receive their ranks.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Krampus

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

How in the world did any of us make it to Eagle without an "Eagle Advisor"?  I am on the District EBOR team.  The Unit CC sets the date with as much lead time as possible, then asks for a District Rep.  I would say 90% of the time, one of us can be there.  There have been a few times when I had four hours notice because someone else had to cancel, but if my schedule is clear, I will bend over backwards to make it work.  Everyone needs to be considerate of each others' time commitments and give as much lead time as possible.

 

Yeah, I never heard of an "Eagle Advisor" until the past few years. It was always up to the Eagle candidate to find out what needed to be done and make sure the i's were dotted and t's crossed. If he had questions, the SM was the man to go to.

 

IMHO, the EBOR is a big deal. It is not something that should be slapped together last minute.

 

As to how it's done, I've got mixed emotions, at least in my neck of the woods. On one hand, it is nice to know that the district EBORs are on the 4th Thursday of every month. But I don't like that they limit the number of EBORs they will do on a night. Most of the year it's not a problem, but October through  December it gets challenging. We have one unit that does ECOHs once a year, on Scout Sunday. And that troop's candidates are a flood.

 

EDITED: they limit the number of EBORs due to time restraints. I wish they would hold the EBORs twice a month, and I wish they had more EBOR members so that two EBORs could be held at one time. Argument against multiple EBORs is to have consistancy.

 

On the opposite end is on demand and coordinating with everyone.  As mentioned I got Eagle after 18 due to the EBOR, and my friend couldn't get one scheduled before basic, and had to get a waiver.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Eagle94-A1

[Stosh 3452]

I guess I'm under a different philosophical approach to this whole business.  I emphasize and re-emphasize leadership as taking care of one's people.  Well, that includes me as well.  My SMC are held as soon as it can be arranged.  Usually if everything is going as it's supposed to be in the troop, I can do it immediately.  

 

If a boy asks for a SMC at the beginning of a meeting, the PL's have their work for the evening all planned out and the ASM can "keep an eye on everythng", I do the SMC right then and there.  If a boy asks for a SMC at the end of a meeting, it is up to him to offer a time that would work for him.  If he says, his parents are willing to wait (2-deep), he can do it right now, or he may suggest an evening between now and next meeting or maybe a half hour prior to next meeting or if all goes well, next meeting.  I for one will do what it takes to take care of the boys.

 

BOR's rely on a lot of other factors than just me personally and require the commitment of 3 people other than me, my ASM's and the boy's parents.  That takes a bit of shuffling around to get done.  I am frustrated currently because I have two TF boys in need of a BOR and no one to help.  If I can't get it pulled together soon, I will be getting the DE involved.

 

I do well with the things I am personally involved in, but can struggle when relying on the assistance of others.  The boys are kept in the loop every step of the way and understand what's going on with the lack of support from other adults in the program.

[perdidochas 658]

I don't understand the objection to SMCs and BORs happening as soon as possible.  If the Troop is running correctly, what is the SM needed for during meetings besides conducting SMC's?  What are the MC's doing during meetings that's more pressing than having a BOR?  The Scouts should be doing most of the work and running the meetings.

 

I'm not saying that a Scout should be able to have a SMC the same minute or meeting he asks for one, but what's wrong with a week's notice to the SM? (again, in an average or small sized troop, big troops working much differently).  Why shouldn't a BOR be scheduled the week after the SMC?  Again, I understand if the individuals can't make one week, but at least in our troop, we have probably 9 or 10 MC's/parents who can be part of a BOR. 

[fred johnson 936]

"on-demand", "instant recognition" ...God forbid we teach patience as we once did. Not how things transpire in the real world, well except maybe getting pulled over instantly for speeding. Safety and disciplinary issues are handled in that manner in our unit. Our BOR's tend to be monthly and not flexible as the committee members have other commitments.

 

Patients is taught working to learn and complete the hundreds of individual requirements.  Getting them checked off and completed.  BORs are about recognizing accomplishments.  I see no reason to justify delays to congratulate the scout.  

[fred johnson 936]

BOR's rely on a lot of other factors than just me personally and require the commitment of 3 people other than me, my ASM's and the boy's parents.  That takes a bit of shuffling around to get done.  I am frustrated currently because I have two TF boys in need of a BOR and no one to help.  If I can't get it pulled together soon, I will be getting the DE involved.

 

Use this exception that gives you flexibility.  

 

From BSA GTA ... 8.0.2.0 Particulars for Tenderfoot Through Life Ranks (or Palms) The preceding applies to boards of review for all Boy Scouting ranks, but there are a few differences for the ranks other than Eagle, and for Eagle Palms: 1. The board is made up of three to six unit committee members—no more and no less. In units with fewer than three registered committee members available to serve, it is permissible to use knowledgeable parents (not those of the candidate) or other adults (registered or not) who are at least 21 years of age and who understand Boy Scouting’s aims. Using unregistered adults for boards of review must be the exception, not the rule.

[fred johnson 936]

I guess I'm under a different philosophical approach to this whole business.  I emphasize and re-emphasize leadership as taking care of one's people.  Well, that includes me as well.  My SMC are held as soon as it can be arranged.  Usually if everything is going as it's supposed to be in the troop, I can do it immediately.  

 

Fully agree.  Everything we do teaches our scouts lessons.  Being responsive to the scouts teaches a strong lesson about helping others and putting people before processes.  

[Stosh 3452]

Finding 3 warm bodies is pretty difficult for a brand new troop with a committee that struggles as much as the boys. 

[RememberSchiff 3663]

Patients is taught working to learn and complete the hundreds of individual requirements.  Getting them checked off and completed.  BORs are about recognizing accomplishments.  I see no reason to justify delays to congratulate the scout.  

Consider it "preparation for life" where, outside of sports, accomplishments are often not quickly recognized, if at all. Patience, keep doing good scout work whether your efforts are recognized or not. The (old) Scout Way.

Edited February 25, 2016 by RememberSchiff

[Krampus 696]

If a boy asks for a SMC at the beginning of a meeting, the PL's have their work for the evening all planned out and the ASM can "keep an eye on everythng", I do the SMC right then and there.

 

That won't work in a large troop. We've tried it and we ended up doing SMCs every week and then trying to shoehorn in the BORs too.

 

I see nothing wrong with having a schedule and asking the boys to 1) be knowledgeable of the schedule, and 2) work to meet that schedule as it meets their schedule.

 

Few things in adult life are "on demand" other than cable TV. MB classes are not on demand. Training classes are not on demand. Nothing in school is on demand. I see no reason for our unit to do SMCs on demand. If I am completely honest, the need for fixed days originated at a PLC meeting as a way to be more considerate of the adults' time.

 

I don't understand the objection to SMCs and BORs happening as soon as possible.  If the Troop is running correctly, what is the SM needed for during meetings besides conducting SMC's?  What are the MC's doing during meetings that's more pressing than having a BOR?  The Scouts should be doing most of the work and running the meetings.

Take your argument to the next level. If a unit is running as boy-led as possible, why would you have more than 2-3 adults there AT ALL?? So if Tommy comes up to you and says "Can I have an SMC now?", you take another adult and go in to the room to do an SMC. That leaves only 1 adult in the meeting hall. Ok, you say, do the SMC in the meeting hall. But if five more scouts request an SMC you now have to have all three leaders doing an SMC. That's about an hour gone for each leader and that assumes you have a third leader to begin with.

 

Now enter reality. Adults travel. Adults drop off and pick up. Adults are shuttling Tommy's sister to dance so you can't have that "instant BOR".

 

 

I'm not saying that a Scout should be able to have a SMC the same minute or meeting he asks for one, but what's wrong with a week's notice to the SM? (again, in an average or small sized troop, big troops working much differently).

I think that is what most folks are saying. Every other week is when we have SMCs. The boys know when to ask and get on the schedule.

 

Why shouldn't a BOR be scheduled the week after the SMC?

In a word, adults are busy during the weekday evenings. There are other kids, other events, work travel, etc., that all impacts people's time. We have them once a month, sometimes twice if we know we have a large batch to do. In a unit with over 50 Scouts, you'd be surprised how hard it is to get three parents for a few hours on a week night. Edited February 25, 2016 by Krampus

[T2Eagle 902]

Fully agree.  Everything we do teaches our scouts lessons.  Being responsive to the scouts teaches a strong lesson about helping others and putting people before processes.  

people before processes.

 

 I think it's reasonable that, especially in a large troop,you have some predetermined time that SMCs or BORs happen because that makes everyone's, scouts' and scouters', lives a little easy because it's a little more predictable.  I don't think patience is the lesson being taught when, as in my troop, it used to be that you had to wait a week after you requested a SMC just because 'we want to teach scouts to schedule."  What schedule, we are all at least in theory scheduled to be at the meeting every week, that's not scheduling, that's controlling.  The same with the idea that we can only do BORs on the third Thursday because, well we only do them on third Thursdays.  that's not a lesson in patience that's a lesson in how to be bureaucratic.

[Stosh 3452]

I wouldn't think that a large unit could accommodate a large number of BOR's and SMC's during regular business hours.  It would depend on each individual SM how many and when he could handle the demand.  It may get to the point where ASM's are used when the boys are doing S2FC and SM focuses on the SLE levels.

 

In a large unit, monthly or bi-mnthly gatherings may be in order or multiple BOR's occurring simultaneously.

 

 Ever consider a drive-thru window or a deli-pick a number machine at your meeting place? 

[Krampus 696]

I wouldn't think that a large unit could accommodate a large number of BOR's and SMC's during regular business hours.  It would depend on each individual SM how many and when he could handle the demand.  It may get to the point where ASM's are used when the boys are doing S2FC and SM focuses on the SLE levels.

 

In a large unit, monthly or bi-mnthly gatherings may be in order or multiple BOR's occurring simultaneously.

 

 Ever consider a drive-thru window or a deli-pick a number machine at your meeting place? 

At one point I was doing SMCs on weekends, during camp outs, during meetings, during other days of the week, etc. At some point, we as volunteers have to have a life. I don't think letting Tommy wait to the first and third Monday of the month is THAT much of an inconvenience. Nor is it against BSA's intent of immediate recognition.