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David CO

Vatican Scouts?

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As long as they shun athiests, they will likely have repeated visits from district executives.

 

You think there will be funding for DEs after this?

 

Our district is already looking for alternate places to hold district events. The current location is a very nice LDS church. When that goes away it will be hard to find another CO willing to let the district meet there as often as it does.

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Why are we clinging to BSA?  There used to be a value to having 'Eagle Scout' on your resume.  Not so much anymore. The mud flung at Scouting has stuck. Eagle may now be a negative: "Oh, you excelled at being a BIGOT..."  

 

The present whitewash will fade away, but the damage will endure.

 

If we are truly in it for the boys, and the program is what the youth need, the program can be duplicated (improved!) elsewhere with less liability.

 

I've stuck around because there was a value in being a Scout.  And I'm sentimental.  I was hoping that my boy could finish up in BSA.  But I'm not so sure that we can hold the line for 3 more years.

 

BSA no longer deserves my loyalty.

Edited by JoeBob
  • Upvote 3

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We have over 1000 kids in our parish, and about 40 Scouts.  Most of those are Cub Scouts.  Boy Scouting has been the least popular of all our youth programs. 

 

Scouting has survived in my parish because of a small, but highly motivated, group of dedicated Scouters.  I have been one of them.

 

The vast majority of my parish could not care less about Scouting.  Scouting exists, not because it is popular, but because it has raised few objections.

 

We are now faced with a very serious objection.  A valid objection.

 

 Participation in BSA will not be decided by the 4% who register with the unit.  It will be decided by the other 96%.

 

Some have objected to the fact that decisions about participation in BSA will likely be made by non-Scouters.  This is true.  It has always been true.  It should be true.

 

A decision to sever ties with BSA will certainly effect our Boy Scouts.  Some suggest that it will hurt them.  I don't know.  I suspect that some boys would be upset, while others shrug it off and move on to other activities. 

 

A decision to keep the units would also effect the 96% who are not Boy Scouts.  These boys can be hurt, too.  A Scout program can act as a magnet for all sorts of hurtful language directed at devoutly Catholic youths. 

 

Some diocese and parishes will immediately drop their units with great fanfare.  Some will quietly drop BSA when their charters expire. 

 

I think we need to begin looking  at an exit strategy that will protect the 96% while allowing the 4% to enjoy an authentically Catholic Scouting experience.  I don't think this can happen in BSA.

Edited by David CO

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Peregrinator posted another link in the Gates thread showing that the Bishop of Fargo is OK allowing the continuing of his Parishes' relationships.

 

http://www.inforum.com/news/3809853-fargo-diocese-thanks-boy-scouts-stating-faith-based-organizations-can-pick-leaders

 

Local option.

 

All that says is that they can pick leaders consistent with "religious principles". That's the same thing they said in Bismark but they went further to define what the principle was. I doubt Fargo is going to go another direction from Bismark. We shall see watch the Archdiocese says.

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We have over 1000 kids in our parish, and about 40 Scouts.  Most of those are Cub Scouts.  Boy Scouting has been the least popular of all our youth programs. 

 

Scouting has survived in my parish because of a small, but highly motivated, group of dedicated Scouters.  I have been one of them.

 

The vast majority of my parish could not care less about Scouting.  Scouting exists, not because it is popular, but because it has raised few objections.

 

We are now faced with a very serious objection.  A valid objection.

 

 Participation in BSA will not be decided by the 4% who register with the unit.  It will be decided by the other 96%.

 

Some have objected to the fact that decisions about participation in BSA will likely be made by non-Scouters.  This is true.  It has always been true.  It should be true.

 

A decision to sever ties with BSA will certainly effect our Boy Scouts.  Some suggest that it will hurt them.  I don't know.  I suspect that some boys would be upset, while others shrug it off and move on to other activities. 

 

A decision to keep the units would also effect the 96% who are not Boy Scouts.  These boys can be hurt, too.  A Scout program can act as a magnet for all sorts of hurtful language directed at devoutly Catholic youths. 

 

Some diocese and parishes will immediately drop their units with great fanfare.  Some will quietly drop BSA when their charters expire. 

 

I think we need to begin looking  at an exit strategy that will protect the 96% while allowing the 4% to enjoy an authentically Catholic Scouting experience.  I don't think this can happen in BSA.

 

How does keeping a Scout unit hurt the non-scouts? That's a mighty big stretch.

 

There is nothing about dropping Scout units that helps anybody but the folks that have been trying to get rid of us for decades--and it's not conservatives. 

 

I'm Catholic, and see nothing in the recent changes that at all cause me to doubt that Scouting is a good thing.  I wish that two years ago when gay youth were allowed, that BSA would have decided to go for local option then. It would have caused a lot less disruption as a whole. 

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All that says is that they can pick leaders consistent with "religious principles". That's the same thing they said in Bismark but they went further to define what the principle was.

I don't see how you get that second sentence from the statement made by the Bishop of the Diocese of Bismarck. His statement says: "Thus, effective immediately, the Catholic Church of the Diocese of Bismarck and each and every one of its parishes, schools and other institutions, is formally disaffiliated with and from the Boy Scouts of America." That has nothing to do with how troops are to select leaders. The statement means that Catholic institutions in that diocese will no longer be CO's for BSA units. No troops, no leaders - at least not within the BSA. That is completely different from what the Fargo diocese is saying.

Edited by NJCubScouter

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Story picked up by the national media:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/region/3810742-bismarck-diocese-cuts-ties-boy-scouts-over-lifting-gay-leadership-ban

 

It will affect three Boy Scouts troops and five Cub Scouts packs in western North Dakota, including a Boy Scouts troop in Mandan that the Catholic Church has sponsored for more than 66 years

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I don't see how you get that second sentence from the statement made by the Bishop of the Diocese of Bismarck. His statement says: "Thus, effective immediately, the Catholic Church of the Diocese of Bismarck and each and every one of its parishes, schools and other institutions, is formally disaffiliated with and from the Boy Scouts of America." That has nothing to do with how troops are to select leaders. The statement means that Catholic institutions in that diocese will no longer be CO's for BSA units. No troops, no leaders - at least not within the BSA. That is completely different from what the Fargo diocese is saying.

 

The Fargo report says they can pick their leaders. The Bismarck report says that the disaffiliation is now in effect. I was responding to the inference that the Fargo comments might allow the "local option", whereas the Bismarck comments are very clear that they will not be associated with BSA anymore. The point being that the Fargo comments did not seem as clear a directive as the Bismarck comments. We agree the Bismarck comments say flat out scouts are gone there.

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The Knights of Columbus have some degree of independence from the parish and diocese, so their units may or may not have been counted in the tally of units chartered by the Catholic Diocese of Bismarck. 

 

In practice, the KC's usually follow the lead of their bishops. 

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We have a local RCChurch that charters a Pack and Troop.  One must profess the Catholic faith to be a Scout in their units.  Small, but active and well supported.

 

 

That's really unusual to require.  Neither mine nor any other RC unit I've known would require it, nor do any of the schools I've been involved with.

 

 

I would even go so far as to argue that it's a mistake.

 

I was CM for our Catholic parish's pack.

 

My daughter's GS leader, who was new to the whole girl scout thing and was very devicive..... well anyway, she once wrote to me saying something about that she thought that the troop should be parish members only, and commented "that's how the pack runs, right?"

I made it very clear that this was not the case.

I looked at the pack as a ministry for the parish.

If we could bring in a family who would not otherwise come to the parish, they might get to know folks here, get exposed to the parish, perhaps get exposed to other ministries of the parish

and who know, they may join the church and convert!

 

Why on earth would any ministry of any Christian church want to exclude based on not being Catholic (or baptist, or lutheran, or whatever)????  It's beyond me why it would even be a thought!!!

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interesting

went over to my diocese page to see if they had posted any statements

found this, buried in an FAQ document that was posted some time ago as a result of the youth change.

Not sure how to interpret it....

 

23. Would a similar change to the BSA adult membership standard be in conflict with Catholic teaching? The USCCB, in its document Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination: Guidelines for Pastoral Care (http://www.usccb.org/about/doctrine/publications/upload/ministry-to-persons-of-homosexualiInclination.pdf), has the following statements which should be applied to adults serving as leaders in Catholic-chartered units: • Persons who experience same-sex attraction and yet are living in accord with Church teaching should be encouraged to take an active role in the life of the faith community. However, the Church has a right to deny roles of service to those whose behavior violates her teaching. Such service may seem to condone an immoral lifestyle and may even be an occasion of scandal. • Special care ought to be taken to ensure that those carrying out the ministry of the Church not use their position of leadership to advocate positions or behaviors not in keeping with the teachings of the Church. They must not belong to groups that oppose Church teaching. It is not sufficient for those involved in this ministry to adopt a position of distant neutrality with regard to Church teaching. • For some persons, revealing their homosexual tendencies to certain close friends, family members, a spiritual director, confessor, or members of a Church support group may provide some spiritual and emotional help and aid them in their growth in the Christian life. In the context of parish life, however, general public self-disclosures are not helpful and should not be encouraged. Any changes to the BSA adult membership standard would need to avoid being in conflict with these guidelines if BSA wants to retain the support of the Catholic Church for its programs.

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The closest troop to my house (not the one I am a leader in) is chartered to a Roman Catholic Church. The person who was Scoutmaster while our sons were in high school together is Jewish, as are several of the other current and former leaders from that troop who I have known. I have attended a couple of ECOH's for that troop (at the church) and they have a very diverse membership - more diverse than ours. I assume there are even a few members of that church in the troop, but I don't know that for sure.

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