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Current BSA Policy Vs local option poll

Current BSA Policy Vs local option poll  

141 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • Current Policy
      46
    • Local Option
      95


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Every council has certain voting members that can vote at the National meeting; usually the Key Three and, depending on the size of the council, member(s) at large. Our small council has 4 total. They just put out a three question survey regarding the issue, sort of. The queries did not mention "local option", only acceptance or non-acceptance of Gays; so do not think it is going to get meaningful results. On the other hand, just got a National survey as well; and it was very specific, and asked for detail as to why and so on. It seemed to be aimed at an honest attempt to get "real" answers. I had to deal with one local member of the congregation at our Methodist sponsor on Scout Sunday. We had a short discussion out in the patio away from the others. Not sure if my answers mollified her, but at least she did not pursue it further. She had gone to the minister, who came to me and asked me to speak with the woman. The church as a whole, is very supportive still.
I think the national survey is the most exciting thing I have watched the BSA do for years now. For the first time, maybe in decades, National is trying to find out what the BSA members really want. No more secret groups doing investigations and making policy.

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So, Has Smith College in Northampton, Ma ever been sued for sex discrimination?

“They didn’t go to Smith†“Go to Smith, she couldn’t even spell itâ€Â…

 

Or the Catholic Church, as they don’t ordain women as Priests, have they been sued for sex discrimination?

 

After all the pleas for the Local Option, why has no one ever mentioned the CO being sued until now?

 

Well, here's a story about a gay couple suing the catholic church for refusing to sell them property based on the churches policy of not allowing gay wedding in formerly sacred spaces...

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/09/11/ma-catholic-diocese-refuses-to-sell-mantion-to-gay-couple-and-now-its-being-sued/

 

Different yes, but not entirely.

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So, Has Smith College in Northampton, Ma ever been sued for sex discrimination?

“They didn’t go to Smith†“Go to Smith, she couldn’t even spell itâ€Â…

 

Or the Catholic Church, as they don’t ordain women as Priests, have they been sued for sex discrimination?

 

After all the pleas for the Local Option, why has no one ever mentioned the CO being sued until now?

 

And another. Private citizens running a private business sued for standing on their faith

 

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2011/07/slippery-slope-catholics-sued-over-gay.html

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So, Has Smith College in Northampton, Ma ever been sued for sex discrimination?

“They didn’t go to Smith†“Go to Smith, she couldn’t even spell itâ€Â…

 

Or the Catholic Church, as they don’t ordain women as Priests, have they been sued for sex discrimination?

 

After all the pleas for the Local Option, why has no one ever mentioned the CO being sued until now?

 

"Private citizens running a private business sued for standing on their faith"

 

No, sued for illegal discrimination, which ended with the Wildflower Inn paying a settlement (i.e. they lost):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/23/wildflower-inn-vermont-gay-marriage-lawsuit_n_1826218.html

According to the above story, the (former) employee falsely claimed that the inn would not allow a same-sex reception, contrary to what the owners of the Inn wanted. Renting out facilities to straight couples but not gay couples is a violation of Vermont's Fair Housing and Public Accommodations Act.

 

As for the property sale, they too can't refuse to sell to a party simply because the buyers are gay, again due to state law.

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BSA just sent me a survey on the proposed policy. Anyone else get one?

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BSA just sent me a survey on the proposed policy. Anyone else get one?
Nike: Not yet, but the following did appear on my council's web site on Friday:

 

A new Voice of the Scout survey has been developed in support of the Listening Phase of the Membership Standards Study. The survey will officially launch March 8, 2013 and will run through April 4, 2013. This survey will be sent to parents of Scouts, Volunteer Leaders at the Unit, District, and Council levels as well as Chartered Organization Representatives and Heads of Institutions. We encourage you to check your e-mail and junk/spam mail to fill out the survey. If you are not sure if your e-mail address is in the system for the survey, please contact (name and contact information) for assistance.

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I got it. I thought it a bit cheezy. A big part of it was a number of scenarios with which you could strongly agree, agree, neither, disagree or strongly disagree. IMO the correct answer to each was "it depends." Lots of square pegs/round hole choices trying to drive things into tidy responses. I did like, however, that nearly every answer included the opportunity to add your own comments. But not the scenarios.

 

The also asked if you could change one thing about BSA what would it be. I said they should fire everyone on the national advancement team.

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They sent me the poll also. One of the questions, and I am paraphrasing, was "What do worries do you have about changing the policy?" I answered that the BSA would take the money saved from litigation and add it to their salaries instead of putting the money in real program.

 

Think they got the hint of what I think of most of National?

 

My $0.02

Rick

 

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When I met and talked with Wayne Brock when he was the ACSE a few years back he struck as a very indecisive man who wanted to please everyone. This mindset has now spread throughout the National staff rendering them virtually unable to make the tough and important decisions rendering themselves totally irrelevant to the scouting program. I vote for the local option in deciding what kind of program you want for your units, within some loose structured guidelines. The only problem is I rather doubt ANYONE at National is even capable of developing such guidelines. So lets return the scouting program back to the local level where it really belongs.

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I copied and saved the scenarios from the COR survey questions if anyone else wants to see them.

They were worded weirdly to me. Like is it acceptable or unacceptable for the troop leader to allow an openly gay and heterosexual boy to tent together.

um, it depends on whether the scouts are choosing their tent mates and agree to this, or if the adults are choosing tent mates. As long as the youth are ok with it, it shouldn't be an issue. it's not like the heterosexual scout will catch the gay from the gay scout.

 

My suggestion to national is local option, and to provide some suggested policy statements for each side. So if a unit chooses to allow homosexual scouts and leaders,maybe they do want to cover tenting situations or other policies to clarify things. and if a unit chooses to disallow homosexual scouts or leaders, especially if their CO is not one of the churches with that opinion, their policies might need to include xyz to coverall bases.

 

I don't know, regardless of where this goes things are going to get wonky for the while.

 

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BSA just sent me a survey on the proposed policy. Anyone else get one?
Not I. Did not receive the VotS survey, but Council emailed to ask I look for it. I went to the National Site and gave a page full to the survey linked on the Home page there.

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The survey for this council consisted of only a couple of questions. I hope it was the same one to which others responded. I have to admit...it did seem like BSA is hoping against hope that this corner they've painted themselves into will suddenly turn into green pastures of membership harmony and agreement. It smacks of weak leadership. Or I guess I could be reading into it my own critical view of the leadership.

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I think my survey was aimed specifically at parents. My scenarios were about a COR exercising their options and gay men as Scoutmasters. As others have noted, it felt pretty lightweight. I'm wondering if BSA doesn't want to gather too much information.

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http://www.scouting.org/MembershipStandards.aspx

 

Here is the full list of questions sent to scout leaders and parents from http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/03/11/boy-scouts-of-america-distributes-survey-on-gay-ban/

 

1. The current Boy Scouts of America requirements, stated above, prohibit open homosexuals from being Scouts or adult Scout leaders. To what extent do you support or oppose this requirement? (Scale: Strongly support, Somewhat support, Neutral, Somewhat oppose, Strongly oppose).

 

 

Following are some possible scenarios that could happen if the Boy Scouts keeps or changes its policy. Please tell us the degree to which you believe the actions taken in each scenario are acceptable or unacceptable. (Scale: Totally acceptable, Somewhat acceptable, Neutral, Somewhat unacceptable, Totally unacceptable)

 

 

ROTATE QUESTIONS 3-8

 

 

2. Tom started in the program as a Tiger Cub, and finished every requirement for the Eagle Scout Award at 16 years of age. At his board of review Tom reveals that he is gay. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the review board to deny his Eagle Scout award based on that admission?

 

 

3. Bob is 15 years old, and the only openly gay Scout in a Boy Scout troop. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the troop leader to allow Bob to tent with a heterosexual boy on an overnight camping trip?

 

 

4. Johnny, a first grade boy, has joined Tiger Cubs with his friends. Johnny’s friends and their parents unanimously nominate Johnny’s mom, who is known by them to be lesbian, to be the den leader. Johnny’s pack is chartered to a church where the doctrine of that faith does not teach that homosexuality is wrong. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for his mother to serve as a den leader for his Cub Scout den?

 

 

5. David, a Boy Scout, believes that homosexuality is wrong. His troop is chartered to a church where the doctrine of that faith also teaches that homosexuality is wrong. Steve, an openly gay youth, applies to be a member in the troop and is denied membership. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for this troop to deny Steve membership in their troop?

 

 

6. A gay male troop leader, along with another adult leader, is taking a group of boys on a camping trip following the youth protection guidelines of two-deep leadership. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for the gay adult leader to take adolescent boys on an overnight camping trip?

 

 

7. A troop is chartered by an organization that does not believe homosexuality is wrong and allows gays to be ministers. The youth minister traditionally serves as the Scoutmaster for the troop. The congregation hires a youth minister who is gay. Is it acceptable or unacceptable for this youth minister to serve as the Scoutmaster?

 

 

8. After reading the scenarios in the previous question, please answer one question again. The current Boy Scouts of America requirements prohibit open homosexuals from being Scouts or adult Scout leaders. To what extent do you support or oppose this requirement? (Scale: Strongly support, Somewhat support, Neutral, Somewhat oppose, Strongly oppose).

 

 

9. Different organizations that charter Boy Scout troops have different positions on the morality of homosexuality. Do you support or oppose allowing charter organizations to follow their own beliefs when selecting Boy Scout members and adult leaders, if that means there will be different standards from one organization to the next. (Scale: Strongly support, Somewhat support, Neutral, Somewhat oppose, Strongly oppose).

 

 

10. What is your greatest concern if the policy remains in place and openly gay youth and adults are prohibited from joining Scouting? (Open end)

 

 

11. What is your greatest concern if the policy is changed to allow charter organizations to make their own decisions to admit openly gay Scouts and leaders? (Open end)

 

 

12. Do you believe the current policy prohibiting open homosexuals from being scouts or adult scout leaders is a core value of Scouting found in the Scout Oath and Law? (Yes or No)

 

 

13. If the Boy Scouts of America makes a decision on this policy that disagrees with your own view, will you continue to participate in the Boy Scouts, or will you leave the organization? (I believe I can find a way to continue, I do not believe I can find a way to continue, I have not yet made up my mind)

 

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