desertrat77

When did the OA manual and BSA insignia guide become holy writ? Did I miss that memo? BadenP, you said it best. The OA becomes a lesser organization, by every measure, with each passing year.

Welcome Bill, and all the new forum members! We benefit from the fresh perspectives. My best to you on the scouting trail.

I normally don't click on these either but couldn't resist. "...lighter topic...." Took me a minute, but that made my day.

So wearing the OA sash in an "unauthorized" manner considered "bad behavior?" I hope I interpreted that wrong. But I don't think I did. Gosh, I wonder why more people don't sign up and join the BSA?

Beavah, excellent question. Though my camp staff/lifeguard BSA are decades past, mulled this over a bit. My recommendations to National: I think the swim check has become more of a tradition ("we've always done it this way") than a valid need. Perhaps in the early days of scouting, when most camps were primitive and waterfronts were rivers and lakes, the swim check was a big deal. But do we need swim checks if the scouts swim in a pool? I don't think so. Unless there is a deep end, and the scout can demonstrate that he can swim across the pool and back before he's allowed in the deep end. Swimming in a lake or river...if they want to swim in the "swimmer" area (deepest water, etc), then yes, do a swim check. Close to shore in the traditional "nonswimmer" and "beginners" area? Nah, just let the scouts jump in and splash around. Would save quite a bit of time and trouble on that first day of camp if swim checks were done away with. For the scouts that want swim checks, conduct them during open swim, or the first five minutes of swimming MB class.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Dale, great suggestion and congrats on 1000! This is 1000 for me too!

Wow, I forgot the most important thing--food! Whatever your messing plan is for camp (dining hall or provide the foodstuffs for patrol cooking in camp), the food quality and prep should be the best it can be. Doesn't have to be fancy, but it should be hearty, healthy, of sufficient quality and quantity, and tasty. Nothing will generate a chorus of "we ain't going back to that camp" quicker than a lousy dining hall.

I'll start by echoing Eagle92--customer service is key. Some camps let staff drift into the mindset that "summer camp would be great if it wasn't for these darn scouts...and scouters." Campers can figure out right away if the staff considers them (the campers) to be a bother to their fun/intrigue/gossip/BS sessions/etc. Gotta hire the right folks. Give some special attention to the adult scouters. They are giving up family time and vacation hours to serve. When I was an ASM/SM at camp, the thing that grated my nerves more than anything was the mouthy teenage staff that had no manners and thought he could boss me around like a camper. It was unsat behavior towards campers, for that matter. Programming: must admit, I do not like the current trend of camps offering every MB in existence. It's like some buffets--all you can eat for 10 bucks, but all you can stand is 5 bucks worth. Citizenship series at camp--are you kidding me? Better to have a good variety with solid instructors than a huge variety and staff just skimming the surface. Offer programs outside of MB earning...the 1st/2d/3d year camper series, with special patches, high adventure (or whatever we call it today) events/programming for older campers. Infrastructure: take a close look at your facilities, with the eye of someone brand new. How do they look? Even if you have a bare-bones camp with minimal buildings, everything in the camp should look sharp. The fly-blown curtains in the medical lodge? Broken benches in the mess hall? Trails eroding? Shooting range roof sagging? Get things ship shape. Donations from building contractors, volunteer labor from Army or AF reserve civil engineers, make a big difference in morale of the campers, and if they will come back the next year. Tradition is important too. The sense of history that today's campers are sharing with campers from yesteryear.

Scoutfish, sounds like you got a good deal. Mil surplus stores have been my favorite place to shop for many years. Never know what you are going to find. Designed to last--if the gear is designed to be "GI proof" it usually is also "scout proof." Pls keep us posted.

Scoutfish, good topic! First item that jumps out in my memory: a decent sleeping bag. As a scout, I used the 10 dollar/10 lb Kmart sleeping bags (backpacking nightmare)...and the aforementioned GI mummy/chickenfeather/surplus bags which kept one toasty warm, but still, they were surplus and had definitely seen better days. So in the '80s, when I could finally afford it, I went to the local sporting good store and bought a superb bag. Still have it, still use it. Amazed at how it improved my sleep and morale. The rest of my gear, though, as I mull this over, is pretty much the same stuff I had as a scout in the '70s. It works and brings back a bunch of memories.

I still treasure (and use) an old school coffee mug that was given to me when I was SM at camp 25+ years ago. It was a standard mug with the camp emblem plus "thanks" and the year included. Simple, useful, and given in a heartfelt manner. Concur with with paying all or part of the leaders' fees--great idea.

Seattle nailed it--sell magazines and attract attention. It's essentially a last gasp for Time. Print media generally, and weekly newsmagazines particularly, are irrelevant. Surprised they are still in business. Why pay for last week's news at today's prices?

The ability to bounce back from a experience that hurts ones' feelings is one of the most important, yet under-rated, qualities a human can possess. Slights, put downs, insults, public humiliation, torment--real and perceived, intentional and unintentional--will happen in life. Even if you keep the scouts in a protective bubble, they are going to become embarrassed at some point. If not as a youth, then for sure in college and the work place. Gotta have thick skin, and learn to "turn the page." Unfortunately, the only way to learn this is by hard knocks. There is a line between what's funny and what's not. Who decides? You and me. Each in our little corner of Planet Earth.

BadenP, I agree. I think the OA needs all the help it can get.

Ken, that is awesome! Know exactly what chapter and photos you are talking about. I got that edition of the fieldbook for my birthday in '74, when I was a Webelo getting ready to cross over into scouts. Read it cover to cover many a time. Still keep it handy (well, a replacement, wore the old one out and that one stays on the shelf now) and read it now and again. PS. My hair looked about the same a couple years later!(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

I've got one stashed in a footlocker. One troop I was in, circa 75 - 77, wore them faithfully. Everyone wore them differently But none were of the Poet variety! Worn properly, I think they are still stylish. John in KC, your comments reminded me that the boonie hat is one of three best items of personal military gear (in my opinion) ever: boonie hat, P38 can opener, and the trust poncho liner.

MV, what is preventing SBs from doing those things right now? An engraved gold letter invitation? By the level they served at to receive the award, they should be the most astute, connected scouters in any community. If they want to be involved, they'll find a way. LOL, there is no doubt in my mind the members of a SB assoc would disagree with my observations. And speaking as a life member of one of the orgs you mentioned (NESA), I often wonder why it exists as well, for the same reasons I questioned the SB assoc.

It's a valid issue, not only in the sense of being physically strong, but the image of scouting overall. The public has a perception of scouting for good or ill. Same as when you see an overweight cop or service member. But I say that with a sense of reality, because as a career military guy nearing retirement, with each passing year I realize how darn hard it is to not only present a fit image in uniform, but to be physically fit as well. It's about being healthy, active and a good role model for the scouts, and those outside of scouting.

Fabs, I'd recommend pursuing an appeal...either way it turns out, you won't wonder "what if" years down the road. Frankly, I don't think the odds of an approval are great, given the clear guidance in the handbook, and the fact that there are a bunch of PORs to choose from, many of them not that demanding. But you never know--so pursue that appeal with all your might. And if it doesn't go your way, please sign on to become an adult scouter when life calms down a bit after the transition to college. From what you've shared with us here, I'm sure there is a den, crew, pack, troop, or ship somewhere that would benefit from your leadership and experience. Many of the very best scouters I've served with over the years topped out at FC/Star/Life, so there is plenty more scouting ahead down the trail. Best wishes, please keep us posted, and good luck in college!

SP, I concur!

SP, count your blessings, because in my travels, I've met enclaves of such folks. They exist and are truly a sight to behold! And not in a good way.

Cito, that is a great question. But as a die-hard C student in math, I'm kinda at a loss to quantify. But I'll venture this far: if a unit spends more time toting, setting up, using, maintaining, and tearing down the gear than they do enjoying a hike, birds, campfire, cooking, tell stories, looking at clouds or stars, etc., then something is out of whack.

...because an inactive SB will only respond to a fellow SB...right?

Papadaddy, well said. There are differences in what constitutes a financial crisis. I've noticed many families that claim dire straits are living way beyond their means--expensive cars, shoes, furniture, vacations, boats, fifth wheels and the like. It's their given right, of course, to live thusly. They loudly squawk at the modest cost of re-registering Little Johnny, or his cut of the patrol's food bill for the weekend. On the other hand, there always seems to be enough money for another ugly tattoo.... The families with genuine crisis--terminally ill child, lost jobs, facing foreclosure? Behind the scenes, I'll move heaven and earth to help them.

Paying your just debts is part of being a good citizen, and a responsible adult. And it starts at home. If some parents aren't paying what they owe, the other parents are subsidizing them. That's a foul. The parents may not be scouts, or subscribe to scouting ideals, but they need to do their duty and pay up, or their kid stays home. Yes, it's tough to have a kid sitting on the sidelines because of the parents' sin. But if the parents sense that pack leadership is collectively a bunch of softies, they will take advantage of that and the problem will not end. This dynamic is not limited to scouting...other non-profits deal with it too. That said, no need to embarrass anyone. A polite phone call and a deadline for payment will suffice for most. The tougher cases? Pay by this date or else. Most will pay. If some families are in dire financial straits, a payment plan could be set up. Many ways to skin the cat, but letting deadbeat parents ride along for free is not one of them.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)