dan

Well since I am a glass half empty sort of person. Lets say that the network showing the superbowl donated a couple of commercials slots to the BSA. And they used some of those great!?!?!? ideas?!?! from the Just for Fun, Ads gone wild thread, and they become the next beer commercials where most people watch the superbowl for the commercials, and a bunch of youth decides to join the BSA, how in the world would packs/troops/councils/districts support these new scouts. It seems most are doing everything they can just to keep up today with the few youth we have, would this not cripple the program? Or maybe I am a glass half full sort of person, and say it is working great as it is today???

A possible suggestion for next year, this is going to raise some eyebrows. Many years ago, when my son was in Cubs, We had the boys come up and get their cars from the staging table, and to stand behind the starter at the track. Once they give the car to the starter they would go to the end of the track to watch the race. The finish line person would take the cars back to the staging table. We would have the scouts get the cars right before the previous race was started. We put up with a lot of criticism for doing this, but none from the scouts. We felt that it helped with keeping the scouts more involved with the race. We heard the complaints, that they may modify a car while doing this,(it never happened) that the scout may drop the car and damage it (this did happen), but the scout where allot happy, than just sitting next to the track and watching, something about keeping them busy! We usually had around 70 cars racing.

12points It seems you have a good resource in Joni4TA. But I have another question, of course. Why is the former SM no longer the SM? Did he step down or what? For the Troopmaster database issues. I just ordered TroopMaster DotNet, for the troop, for the same reasons, maybe you could look into it. It is not cheap, 70.00 dollars. But if your troop is large enough, it maybe worth it.

Color Guard and saluting the flags. I did some of research on this a few years back. I came to the conclusion that there is no right or wrong way for scouts to do this. But most ceremonies I came up with is that after posting the colors, the color guard stands at attention not saluting until the pledge is done, when the pledge is done, the color guard takes one brisk step back and smartly salutes the flag, and then retreats.

This sounds like most troops. The scouts going to the adults that they feel can help them the most. Or telling the scouts what they want to hear. As mentioned above the CC needs to tell the former SM to step away for a while. BUT it seems like the SM is allowing this to happen. The SM has a great tool to use, if he wants. Within the SM handbook it states that the SM signs off of all requirements or someone he delegates. The SM needs to make up a list of who can sign off of requirements and not include the ex SM. This will most likely cause quite a commotion within the troop. But it will show the scouts and adults who is running the show. Like it or not the SM is the person with the most responsibility for the troop doing good or not. It maybe true that the COR selects the leaders, but the SM has a great tool to help him select his leaders. This would take a very strong SM to pull this off. I really do not understand the issue of the advancement chair being in charge of the data in Troop master, is that not her job? Why would the SM want to take over another job? That job should not be taken on by a SM. It sounds like this SM wants to be in charge of everything also? For the uniform issues, the SM needs to have the SPL explain at a PLC why a PLC should not be trying to change the BSA uniform.

Many kids are in bands that play really bad. So a better analogy would be. Can my son be in the band if he refuses to play a instrument? Can my son be in the BSA if he does not believe in God? Merlyn you keep saying that schools CAN'T be a CO for Scouts, this is where you are wrong. You should be saying that you do not think they should. You are mixing up the words can't and shouldn't.

mhager Lets say you are sitting around the campfire with a group of scouts, after a long day of hiking lets say at Philmont, the discussion turns to God. One of the scouts ask you what you think about God. How would you answer this question?

I have never seen the movie Follow Me Boys. But it has been discussed on here before, everyone said it was a feel good movie, but it was not really a boy run troop within the movie. To build on your thoughts, how about a movie night and show the The Fast Start video.

My sons troop is going through somewhat of the same thing, right now, the SM has been doing it for 8 months now. He is trying to make some changes, but is not making any head way. In fact it has gone more away from boy lead. Some posters here say to take it slow, do not do any big changes. It seems to me that a quick change, would help the troop in the long run. Instead of trying to keep everyone happy. Get all the changes done and get the troop hiking on down the trail. Instead of making small steps that may take forever to get on down the trail. For the posters here that say to make small changes a little a time, is this to keep the adults happy or what?

I am having a hard time understanding what everyone is really looking for in a new uniform. Cheaper? Better Quality? Fit Better? When this comes up I think something from Columbia would work good, they have some good clothing, made for the outdoors. Then I go and price them, 70 buck for a pair of pants, 55 bucks for a shirt, and think, well so much for that idea. Another poster brought up LL Bean in another thread, I went and looked at some clothing on the LL Bean site. 65 bucks for a pair of pants, 50 bucks for a decent shirt, that could work as a uniform. Do not know if they where made in the US of A. I know the Columbia's' are not made in the US of A. How about some Carhart jeans they are made in the US of A? Jeans do not seem to be the right choice for outdoor wear. The current scout pants would work better than jeans. They would dry a lot faster. Help me out here, what and where would you find a better fit, better quality, cheaper uniform?

C-35-03 Centeral Region 35th course Year course was held

Dan asks the question if starting of a gay alliance organization constitutes homosexual behavior? Of course not. Just for reference, I totally disagree with this statement.

I do not believe this discussion has gotten off of the topic, it is very relevant to the original question. I was just trying to make sure I understood what you where saying. Even now I am not sure what you are saying, and why. There has been many good discussion here lately, many where I have learned much. and with that I feel that you do not want me to ask anymore questions, that you are not willing to share, so thank you for the time you did spend on this.

anarchist I guess I did not make myself clear in my post. What do you consider mastered, I know you said you took it out of the BS Handbook, but how do you or the troop decide that a skill is mastered? What methods do you use to make sure a scout never forgets a skill once it is mastered? And are you saying it is up to the scouts in the troop to teach themselves the skills and the troop does not have anything to do with this? It sounds like, from your post, that the scouts have to show the SM that he knows how to do all of the requirements at the SM conference. You are correct the 3 months was weak, but are you saying that a scout going for his eagle has to have remembered all of the skills from 1st and 2nd class, without the troop giving him any chances to utilize the skills? Just for reference, I do not sign off of requirement unless the scout knows the requirement. If a scout is tying a bowline and he struggles I will work with him until he gets it or if he cannot get it, I tell him to keep working on it, and see me when he can do it.

Or was the execution complete chaos? How would a Eagle Board know it was complete chaos? Unless the troop does its own Eagle Boards? I have heard that the Eagle Board for the District that I am in, has a couple of folks on it that say no scout under 16 will get his Eagle from us. I do not know if this is true or not, But it would not surprise me.

Between 1971 and 1979, the BSA offered a jac-shirt for Cub Scouters and Exploring leaders in royal blue (the same dark shade of blue used for the Cub Scout uniforms and for Exploring outer garments). This version of the jac-shirt was a slow-seller and the BSA quickly removed it from the Supply Division's uniforming offers. Info from a post from Black Eagle on Scout L back in 1999.

Strawberry Switchblade From that link that you provided, it shows 2 scouts removed from the BSA for being gay. I am just trying to see what you meant when you wrote. "Even if at no time he acted on it?" Of the 2 scouts kicked out, there really is only information on one of the scouts. It said that he helped start a gay alliance at his school. My question to you is, do you think that starting a gay alliance in not acting on it? Not looking for a debate, just trying to understand your beliefs. I did not include the scouts removed for being atheists, this thread was about the gay issue.

anarchist There is one 2 fatal flaws in your thoughts on mastered skills, at least in my mind. How long does it take to master a skill? A scout learns how to tie the knots for 1st class, 3 months later he asks for his SM conference, but he has not used the knots since he mastered them 3 months ago, what is the chance he will remember how to tie them, most likely he will not, and whose fault is that, I say its the troops. I think you skipped over a very important part of what I typed, it was: It should be the troop responsible to make sure that the scouts are using the skills, so they are not forgotten. I do not believe a skill can be mastered enough to not be forgotten, if the skill is not used it will be forgotten. In my experience I have found that the scout teaching the skills learns more than the trainee, it is really exciting watching a scout teaching and how they grow from it. Which is where I think you and I differ on this. I expect a 1st class scout to step up and teach other scouts how to tie the knots, but he may not have remembered how, when he was asked to do this training at the next meeting, but I expect him to be prepared to refresh his skills before the training date. I have staffed to JLTC, it is something I really enjoy doing, the biggest thrill is watching the scout staffer grow in the 6 months I spend with them, they get alot more out of the course than the participants. I would also like to know what kind of polices you have written up, could you share them? And Yes I do .

It is good to hear that HWMBO is doing good, I will say a prayer for her, and for you for a quick recovery. From your posts here, I think that the district would suffer a set back if you left, from your posts here, it sounds like you keep them on the straight and narrow. Beside what would you do with all of the extra time? I applaud all of the volunteers that work at the district level, if I did not have the interactions with the scouts, the adults would drive me nuts.

Strawberry Switchblade You wrote Yet is it morally straight to kick out a boy whose been in scouting for some time on the basis that he is gay? Even if at no time he acted on it? Has this ever happened? I do not think it has. Do you? Do you think the BSA would remove a scout, who tells them that he may have different feelings?

Trevorum What good does it do to poll scouts, when all they have to compare is different merit badge mills? I will disagree with what you think the adults want, because it is not what I want out of a BSA camp. And yes I am a adult, at least age wise.

SR540Beaver I think you missed my point, or maybe not? As leaders we watch how merit badges are being done at summer camps. What is the difference in doing merit badges at a troop meeting versus summer camp? I do not see much of a difference. Why couldn't the week long summer camp be used to work on/use scout skills instead of all merit badges? Leave some of the merit badges that the staff can do a really good job with. Have the rest of staff setup stations that the scouts can use scout skills and have fun at. Have other staffers setup other fun stations which the scouts can visit and use. These stations can be games, teamwork skills/games. I am not suggesting that the scouts sit around for a week doing nothing, but if they did, that would be up to the leadership of the troop to handle. Do the leaders of the troop really need someone to setup a week worth of actives for the troop? It seems that the leaders of a troop should be able to do this, and have a great week, with lots of fun. Without working on merit badges for the entire week.

Back to the topic. IMO the BSA has watered down the merit badge program by allowing Summer Camps to become merit badge mills. And allowing Councils/Districts to have merit badge university, or whatever the council/district calls them. Leaders see how the council/district/summer camps handle merit badges and think if this is the way the BSA wants it done, we will take it back to the troop and do merit badges at troop meetings. They are just following the program as they see it being done. Tell me and I will remember 10% of what you tell me, show me and I will retain 40% of what I see. The BSA needs to make summer camps more as a week of camping/hiking/swimming/hanging out with buddies/exploring/fishing than merit badge mills. It will never happen though it would take a lot of work to make a summer camp a place to do a lot of things other than merit badges. We just need to take this as a change to the program, and move on. But less place the change where it belongs on the adult leaders. US,

The requirements do not say that a scout needs to remember the requirements after they have been signed off. If the scout did the requirement and it was signed off, and he forgot it by the SM conference he still has satisfied the requirement. It should be the troop responsible to make sure that the scouts are using the skills, so they are not forgotten. What does your policy say on how a scouts should act? Something more than the Scout Oath and Law?

Who may sign off on a Boy Scouts rank requirement? The SM handbook states that the SM assigns who can sign off of the requirements for advancements. The SM should have a list of who can sign off of what requirements. If the SM says Troop guides can, that is fine, if he says only he can, that is also fine. So back to the original question, I never sign off of a requirement, unless the scout can show me, that he understands the requirement. If a scout comes up to me and says I did safe swim defense for the canoing merit badge, can you sign off for me, I just say, great it will only take you a couple of minutes to tell me what is required for safe swim defense. Has the SM allowed this CM to sign off of this requirement for other scouts? Does the troop allow CM to sign off of requirements? It sounds like the SM has not done his job and wrote down who can sign off of what?