dan

I really like this idea. Looking at how council camps have become merit badge mills and they do not support the patrol method. The only thing that I would change, is that I would not have any adults camping with the patrols. Could you explain why you think this is necessary? This must be a huge task to set this up and run it for a week. (This message has been edited by dan)

The methods are not required. It is required that I drive the speed limit, if I do not I may have to pay a fine. It is required that I go to work, if I do not I may not have the job that I have know. If a unit does not use the methods, life goes on and the council is just happy to have a unit on the books. Of course this is using the definition for required from the dictionary.

johndaigler 10%? I think that is the number that would stay. It's tough to disagree with truth, but style . . . Did you really mean to say It's tough to disagree with truth, with style?

OldGreyEagle I am going to have to disagre with you. I think there are at least 3 if not more, posters that would disagree with him. ;(

schleining In the SM handbook, it states that a Scout does not have to own a uniform to join scouts. But unless you read the entire chapter on uniforms, and only pull out one sentence, most likely you will not understand the uniform method. I believe that the BSA worded it this way for unit that could really not afford the uniform, to have a loophole for them. It is to bad that so many units have used this loophole, for the incorrect reasons.

How does an elephant get out of a tree? He stands on a leaf and whats for the fall. Did you hear about the guy that tripped into a screen door, he strained himself. How does an elephant hide in a strawberry patch? He paints his toenails red. What do you call a boy scout who: Is sleeping in a pile of leaves: Russel

How old is this person?

Remove him from the position of Patrol advisor's, appoint someone else. Inform him that he can not sign off of any requirements for the Scouts. Stop pussy footing around and take control of YOUR ASMs.

Fuzzybear I did answer your question. I guess it was too subtle for you. Once Saved, always Saved. Means nothing to me. I do not believe it. I believe that this scout is going to Hell unless he stops being an atheist. It sounds like this Eagle Board went looking for a reason to allow this scout to become an Eagle scout. But I guess it should not surprise me with all of the posters that posted in this thread http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=91779 that said being an atheist and being a scout is all right with them.

I asked the question, because I could not believe anyone would say a scout pass an Eagle BOR after he said he was an atheist and his mommy and daddy said he was not, so he passed. Packsaddle The boy said he was an atheist!? I take it you are with Fuzzybear, that the boy once had a belief in God, now he does not, so once saved, always saved.

and the world of Scouting will be a happy place and the world of Scouting will be a happy place. If it was only so. So you are saying if I write a lot of rules the Scouting get better, happier. Why are you in scouting if you are not having fun with it and are happy? I just do not get it!

I am still confused. How could someone become an Eagle scout if they said they where an atheist. Did he later say he was not? I am really curious on what faith allows one to say they are an atheist.

A few years ago, a young man stated that he was an atheist during his Eagle BOR. He made a point to direct his comment to me. I didn't answer him right away not because I was patient but because I knew he was somehow manipulating me and the Board with his answer. I was certain that my answer to him would be correct without any doubt. The other leaders also were absolutely sure and we all agreed. We recessed for two weeks and spoke with his religious leader and his parents. When we returned, we apologized for our lack of knowledge and he was given his Eagle. We were given credit for doing a good job from people from several counties away (most unusual). Many had heard of our "great" insight and ability at resolving the situation but that was not the case at all. I found it hard to forgive the young man because he had used the situation as a kind of a twisted joke. Finding humor in had to come first. Are you saying that a Scout said he was an atheist, and The Eagle Committee asked his parents and other people and they said he did, so he got his Eagle? What am I missing here? I am trying to see how the committee could do that. Am I missing part of the story?

A simple little fun, at someone else's expense. Taken to the extreme. Review what I wrote. It was encouraged to take unlost items. Is a patrol flag lashed to a dining fly a lost item? I realize that this is only one council, BUT how many other training sessions within the BSA are full of garbage like this? My guess is well over 50%. I understand that it is volunteers putting on the training, BUT the BSA is still responsible for the training. While I am out camping this weekend with the 4 new scout patrols, I think I will put to use what I learned at WoodBadge. I will suggest to the older scouts that they "find" lost items from the 1st year scouts (this will be the first campout for 24 new scouts) and Saturday night at the campfire, I will have them hold them up over the fire and have the owner come up and sing for them, if they do not I will have the SPL just dump the lost item in the fire! What a great idea! When the complaints start coming in, I can tell the Unit commissioner that I learned this at Wood Badge for the 21st century. I think my a$$ will be covered, COOL. Monday night I talked to a couple of Wood Badge staffers from last year course. there was singing for lost items, during last years course. dan, the man that thinks the BSA is in big trouble with stuff like this, stuff like this will be the end of the BSA, not the gay issue or the atheist issue.

SemperParatus What was the original question? After my last attempt of math, I think I will pass. But thanks for the offer. Who started this thread!? Once again I remind myself not to post in the Issue and Politics section.

When I took Wood Badge for the 21st Century in 2003. We Foxes "lost" our flag. We left if behind after a patrol presentation by the troop guide. After walking back to get the flag, about 15 minutes later, it was no longer tied to the dining fly. When we told the troop guide that our flag was missing, he started joking around about how we should talk better care of our "stuff" and not misplace it. And when "someone" finds it we would most likley have to sing for it. I had been quiet the whole time throughout this discussion. At this time I informed the Troop Guide that I would not be singing for the patrol flag. The troop guide asked me if I could not sing. I told him that was besides the point. I asked him if he thought we should be showing these leaders that singing for lost items was scout like? He did not have an answer. I informed him that if we got called up to sing I would be standing with my patrol but with my back to everyone. The patrol flag was returned about 2 hours later by the troop guide. The troop guide was amazed that I took a stand on this. Of course I was not really that quiet while I was explaining my thoughts with him, It was in front of the entire troop. I hear that I caused quite a conservation for the staff. Needless to say I was very disappointed that the premier training for Scout leaders, encouraged singing for lost items, and encouraged other patrols to borrow items. Oh Well, as my wife says its only Scouts.

Yes, keep it short.

Now, please show me where BSA defines the "activity" uniform! Look in the Scout Handbook.

SemperParatus Sorry that I came on so strong, I should have just stated that I think your numbers may be incorrect, instead I made is sound like you did it on purpose. I apologize. But I am still waiting on an answer about the local option, and how it would work. Acc040 Let's look at this rationally, you are incorrect. Merlyn I do not hate atheists or you and I even understand why you want to be in the BSA, it is a great program. I cannot imagine a BSA troop not saying the Pledge of Alliance.

Dug No I do not, The BSA does not want me to. The BSA talks about a beleif in GOD. You did not answer the other questions.

Dug Do you not think that atheists are not going to try to convert scouts to there way of thinking? Think about an atheists being a Den Leader, working with the same scouts for 4 years. Think about an atheist on the top of Baldy with a group of scouts, telling them that this is not Gods country! No matter how hard we try not to instill our beliefs in these young men, we leave them with a bit of ourselves after every meeting with them.

I guess math is not my strong suit either! OPPS. SemperParatus Yes, I did answer. In my last post, I was the one waiting for more info before deciding, but since there was no more info, I had to make a decision. But I will still like to hear from your hypothetical NEWS FLASH if there is an local option, on how that would/could work. DUG This thread is not about atheists!? I think you need to reread the thread. If the BSA allowed atheists to join how would you keep the Merlyn Leroy's out of your troop? I do not think you legally could.

SemperParatus You must be viewing a different thread than this one when you came up with your poll numbers. I came up with these numbers. 9 Stay 4 Quit 2 Stay but they are assuming that the unit or CO can make there own joining requirements. 1 Asking for clarification on the joining requirements. So lets split the 2 that are assuming, and the one asking for clarification would be quit. So that makes 10 stay 6 quit In other words 60% would quit. I am amazed that any leaders would think it would be okay for scouts to go on a campout with Mernley Leroy trying to convice them that there is no God! These young men are a very impression age, and they do not need a person like that as a role model.

As usually when a statement is made or a question is asked in these forums, it seems I do not have enough information to answer the question or statement, if one could answer a statement. When you say that it is optional to be charted by the BSA, does this also mean that the charter can also have optional requirements? Meaning only gays but no atheist or only atheist and no gays? Or none of the above? What would the BSA do if this did happen and a unit would not allow atheist to go on a campout?

Was the old Leadership Corps ran like spl409 posted in his Woods Wisdom post. Where the Scoutmaster assigned the scouts to the Leadership Corps? And than the Leadership Corps ran the troop. If this is true I can see why the BSA decided that there maybe a better way to be boy run.