dan

nldscout Because the people that need the help are not the ones that makes the decision to help us. They are just plain old folks like us, BUT we have the ability to help, most of them do and did not.

EagleInKY You say you do not get it, but you sayed it better than I could. Where does the BSA promote a Webelos Night for a troop? I looked in the SM handbook and did not see it in there.

The way I understand the process, it is the Committees job to deal with discipline. But If I where the SM of the troop, I would have the ASPL prepare and give each patrol (not as a troop) a presentation on fire safety. I would not allow him to give the presentation until I have viewed it and approved it. I may even have him use the video you discussed within the presentation, I would have to see the video. Possibly also remove his privilege to use fire.

I do not believe that Webelos are capable of picking a troop for the correct reasons. Deciding on a troop should not be that hard. IF you want a troop which utilizes the BSA methods. 1. Are all of the leaders in uniform, including the SPL, ASPL and Troop Instructors and Guides. 2.Does the SM and ASM do very little at meetings, mostly just sitting around and being quiet. If the SM gets up and talks quietly to the SPL this should be taken as a good thing. This means that the PLC has the meeting planned out. Asked to see the written plan for the meeting. 3.Are the scouts acting like scouts, meaning sometimes they seem a little out of control, loud, not paying attention. 4.Does the SPL have control of the meeting, but is not acting like a drill Sergent. 5.During the meeting has the troop worked on scout skills, meet as patrol, and played a game? 6.Did the troop put the Webelos in a patrol, Webelos only, with a troop guide and a ASM. 7.If the troop has a Webelos night where all of the Webelos thinking about joining are invited that night, run from this troop. 8.Are older scouts involved in the meeting or have they been out of the meeting the entire night working on Venture Patrol things, this should be a warning, that they are not keeping the older scouts involved.

Fuzzy Bear I do not believe the course is in trouble or troubled. As it has been pointed out to me it is not a course to teach the patrol method or how to run a den. Which I now understand. But why use the patrol method, is my question. Seems it sends the wrong message. To Borrow from Korea Scouter, in another thread, I had a boss that said if you are not changing you are going back wards. Now, I do not believe that the BSA needs to change it AIMs and Methods, but, for training, there maybe a better way to do it. I thought I had a idea for improvement, but after reading Eamonn comments Wood Badge would be the wrong place for my ideas.

Eamonn I see what you are saying that Wood Badge uses the patrol method, because it works. Not really what does that mean? But to turn it around, why bother at all with the patrol method, if Wood Badge is a leadership course for all scouting positions, why bother placing the participants in patrols, having them hike to the outpost cam pout? Seem it would be alot easier to not go to work of setting up patrols, role playing and so on. Or is just for fun? In Wood Badge we spent less than a day being Cub Scouts, less than a day being Ventures, and the rest of the time being Boy Scouts, seems like the course is slanted toward SM and ASM. I have been told that by 2006 all of the Ken Blanchard material will be removed from the Wood Badge course, it will be replaced by the material from National Youth Leadership Training.

A poster wrote The training I received in WB brought me to a new level in Scouting and I would never have believed that could happen but it did and I will be forever grateful for the experience and the training. Which is a little different than what I got out of Wood Badge. I had a great time at Wood Badge meet many other scouter's and made many friends. The classes where mostly refreshers for me, but very good refreshers, but I have been through most of them in some other form before. But, I do not see how adult leaders acting as scouts for 6 days give the leadership skills to run a boy lead program. In the course I attended I do not remember the trainers even saying that the participants are acting as scouts to see what the scouts have to deal with in a boy lead program, even if the trainers would have said this I do not see how this would have given them the skills the adults need to run a boy lead program. The only suggestion I can think of to help this is to have youths be the SPL and ASPL to show scouter's how youth can lead the program. I bet this would raise some eyebows!

The synopsis from this thread. 3 posters thinks the training program needs to be changed, but they do not agree on what the changes should be. 2 posters think that the trainers are the problem. 2 posters say no changes needed. 1 poster says the BSA needs to cutback on training. 2 posters think eagle scouts causes training problems. The discussion about who should be doing training, if anyone thinks that the wood badgers are going to let a non wood badge person do the training, I think you would be stepping on some toes with this one! In closing I would like to say, look for the next spin off!

What is BCS 104? And please do not sugar coat it for me. As was said on Dragnet. Just the Facts Ma am. Eamon I have never thought of you as Sugar Coated. thanks, now I have to try get that picture out of my head! :0

I do believe the moderators here do a great job. They put up with a lot more than I would. Heck, I would probably ban myself! I post on a couple of other scouting boards, one you have to watch what you say, if you disagree with the moderators, they ask you not to post anymore if you do they ban you. A couple of the other ones are just plain nasty anything goes. This one seems to be the most active, and with mostly scouters posting and not trolls.

In another post a posters questioned some of the BSA training. It seems to me that the BSA keeps the training very upbeat and positive, which really waters down the training. If during the training, the trainer said things like, You cannot add to requirements, You WILL allow you SPL to be elected, ETC., it would drive many leaders away. I will use the person that use to post here (he that cannot be named (htcbn)) as an example. htcbn would give the people the information in a straight forward and honest way. Not sugar coater, and look how many posters took this as a personnel attack. He cast no stones (until stones where cast at him), just spelled it out, right to the point. Nothing more nothing less, and many posters here could not handle this, they want the training and information to be sugar coated, so that they can continue to run the program as they see fit. The BSA knows at this time, it cannot make training more to the point because it would cause many units to fold, because the leaders do not want the BSA to tell them how to run the program, they want a flexible program, to fit them. But I sure hope the BSA has a task team working on beefing up the training.

A musician.

Do nothing, keep flying under the radar. It is the way the CO wants it and the way the CC wants it. Remember township, may or may not be legal. I have asked 2 DEs about this, and they both sad they where working on it. They are both gone know, Number 3 in a year. The district has no more CO to provide. We have 3 troops within 15 miles of each other that are over 70 boys each, If no CO available no new troops. I Love this scouting stuff!

The Township. Do not tell Meryln! rate them a 1. They could not even tell you where the troop mets at. The CO does not have a clue who the leaders are, that they have approved. Seems like the ratings here, are based on different ideas of what a CO should do.

Yes we have many smart posters here. They are so smart that they have developed their own program, so they do not need to follow the BSA program. How in the world can you talk about friendly kind and fog in same sentence, what in the heck where you reading! Signed one of the idiots!

I have earned 4 knots and have my woodbadge beads. I do not have any knots on any of my uniforms, and no plans to put them on. If I was a Eagle scout, I think I would wear that knot and if I had the religious knots I would wears those also. I have only worn my wood badge beads a few times. One COH and 3 beading ceremonies. I am in it for the boys not to try and impress other leaders. Looking at the leaders with knots filling up the uniform I only fell sorry for them, they do not understand the program. When I have someone training me or explaining scouting to me with their shirt full of salad, I know I am not going to get much from this person, this is from past experience. From the Scoutmaster Handbook, page 153 While Scouters may wear the insignia to which they are entitled, a total display may not be in the best taste if the uniform is overdecorated. The Scoutmaster who wears only his Scoutmaster emblem, council or community strip, troop numeral, and service star on his uniform is never quality of poor taste. I take this to mean that a overdecorated Scouter is in poor taste. AND IT LOOKS REALLY REALLY BAD! Most of the knots IMHO, mean nothing, any decent leader earns the awards, just by doing what they are suppose to be doing. Please call me Slick Shirt Dan. And that is all I have to say about that.

A little more info on Double H. The crew will have a guide with them the entire time, your guide, will provide the crew with the program during the hike and in the evening. The reason you will have a guide with you, is that without trails, you can become lost pretty easy. Not all crews are good at navigations as they should be. If you do one of the harder treks, it will test your stamina. We talked to a few other crews that where on Class 1 and they said the trek was easy, they where only hiking a few hours a day. Water can be an issue. If you go make sure to take ceramic water filters, at least 4 per crew, this will allow you to obtain water faster, and not spend so much time obtaining water. They where some really bad watering holes, which we obtained water from, but from talking to the staff at Double H, it sounds like they may have a lot of these issues solved for next year, you may not need the 4 filters. Double H is a lot more desert than Philmont. We did not see any running streams the week we where there. One of the biggest disappointment I had with the trek was that we did not see much wildlife. We saw lots of deadlife, cattle, deer, antelope, elk skeletons. But in Hindsight, the wildlife at Double H has not seen many humans before this year and this year scouts where all over the place, I am sure that they where driving pretty far back into the mountains. If you have a strong crew, I would recommend that you go to Double H, and do a Class 3 trek, you will see lots of scenery and it is not all the same. If you go to Double H, you will find it a good trek, as long as you are not expecting Philmont.

I attended Double H this year. I thought is was a good trek. Some of the older scouts that have been to Philmont before, did not like the trek. They said it is not Philmont. Which I what tell anyone that asks about Double H. IT IS NOT PHILMONT. If you go to Double H do not try to compare it to Philmont. The older scouts that have been to Philmont, said that this trek was a lot harder than Philmont. We did a Class 3 trek which is the hardest one they have. The GPS part is not that big of a deal, we used compass more than the GPS, no one wanted to carry all of the batteries that would be needed to leave the GPS on all day. And the compass works just as good. Bottom Line is I would do it again, it will test you, and it is beautiful country, just a different beauty than Philmont. If you would like more info, please let me know. You can see a few pictures here. http://groups.msn.com/BoyScouts/doublehexp714bb.msnw

SemperParatus You say that like it is a big deal, is that not your role as an adult leader? Why did you not train you SPL to know why the BSA is a uniformed org. That way a younger scout may have brought up the idea, but the SPL should have been able to explain why, we wear uniforms. The way you wrote that it sounds like you slammed your fist on the table and said NO WE WILL WEAR UNIFORMS, and did not explain why. I am just asking for clarification. EagleKY You said "My" doesn't mean you are a dictator BUT it seems like a lot of the posters here that do not follow the program do say MY troop, and it seems that they run it and not the youth. So saying MY could mean you are a dictator. DO you see the position you put yourself in when you say My? is it your PLC? is it your SPL? Is not my troop it is my sons troop.

OH NO not the carharts pants, they rub me the wrong way!

I watched a special on PBS a few years back they where exploring why teenagers sleep so much. The program suggested that the teenagers brains where developing during sleep, and that teenagers that got to sleep at least 12 hours a night on weekends where better off than those getting 8 hours a night.

JOKE? If it has to be explained, that means it was a bad joke. Yes I have a very dry sense of humor, but I amuse myself! Proud Eagle Your way or my way to pick the candidate, probably does not make much of a difference, its a crap shoot most of the time on which will be the best leader. No scouts picks up signs only the leaders, not off of public property only along side of the road, after the elections.

Proud Eagle Do you have a better way to pick a candidate? I am picking one that supports a troop the best! Legal, Heck it is better than legal!

Welcome! If you are in a new scout patrol, the patrol leader job, May rotate monthly. But to start I would suggest reading the Patrol Leaders Job Description. Here it is ------------------------------------------- PATROL LEADERS Appoint Assistant Patrol Leader who will function as Patrol leader in his absence. Appoint Patrol Scribe who will maintain the Patrol Record Book, keep tracking of Patrol members attendance at Troop and Patrol meetings and outings and who will collect money from Patrol members for outings. Appoint Patrol Quartermaster who will keep track of all Patrol equipment between outings and who will supervise cleaning of that equipment after each outing. Represent Patrol at PLC meetings. Report back to Patrol on responsibilities for Troop meetings and outings. Plan and lead Patrol meetings and outings. Help any members of the Patrol with advancement through First Class, either by teaching the required skills or by setting up situations for meeting the requirements. Know the requirements for the Baden-Powell Patrol Award and work toward earning the award. As Patrol Leader, I promise to do my best to fulfill the requirements of this position during the coming year. I understand that my performance in this position will be evaluated by the Senior Patrol and the adult leaders on the basis of my abilities and the job description given above, as well as the demonstration of Scout Spirit and leadership at Troop meetings and other events. ---------------------------------------------- Hopefully you troop will be having a JLT, attend it and learn. Utilize your patrols members to make your job easier. Keep your patrol informed with information from the PLC meetings. Follow the Scout Oath and Law AND most important HAVE FUN!

Webelos Den Leader Scoutmaster for JLTC