acco40

The scout asked about the signing interpreter strip. The only other individuals I know who are qualified are his parents and he has stated that he can sign better than they can. I guess I can inquire at a school. Bobwhite, while yours is a good suggestion, bottom line is still the same - the award is based on my judgment, correct?(This message has been edited by acco40)

Honestly? Because my wife attended a Scout meeting and dutifully signed up her husband to be a leader (without my knowledge). That began a journey from Tiger Coordinator (before it was a formal den), to Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader, Assistant Scoutmaster to Scoutmaster with Unit Commissioner, Training Staff, Popcorn Chair (for district) and FOS presenter thrown in just in case I had a moment of free time. Why have I stayed in? Because I believe that even with some of it's warts, the BSA program is a good one for my sons, my community and for our nation. Besides, I've made many new friends and learned to tie a bowline along the way.

What many may not realize is that the moderators, for the most part, do not confer with each other. Sometimes I wince when I see what other moderators have done to posts. I'm sure some wince when I go and edit posts simply for grammar and spelling (I'll do that just to make the posts more clear). At summer camp, I taught a little about sharpening an axe using a bastard file (Firem'n Chit fodder). I teased one of the Scouts (around 14) that this was the only context that they could used the word bastard in Scouts. Yes, I have a weird sense of humor and some may feel it is necessary to edit this post while others may not. C'est la vie. The placement of that wording is done automatically by the forum software and was designed to operate in that manner by Terry. It cannot be altered or removed by a moderator. While true in some sense, as a moderator, I can edit a post and delete anything that is currently in the post - including previous tag lines (message has been edited by ... message has been edited by moderator, etc.). The only thing that is automatic is the last tag line.

When did "official" replace "field"?

FScouter - I know the requirements (I have a 2008 advancement book). However, I'm not qualified to judge if these requirements are met. So, I'm going to guess by the previous posts that I can use my "scoutmaster" judgment and purchase the strip for a Scout I feel is qualified?

If bugs really bother him he must be a Democrat. Some snakes may be poisonous, but I don't know if anyone has eaten them or not.(This message has been edited by acco40)

You start repeating yourself, again and again.

To stir the pot what is a "Scout t-shirt?" The activity uniform allows for a different shirt than the field uniform. I've always interpreted the phrase Scout t-shirt as something scout appropriate. My kids had an Old Navy t-shirt that was basically white with the US flag in the front, some simple patriotic phrase under it, and in some place in small print was Old Navy. In my book, scout appropriate. My oldest son, 17, Eagle Scout, NYLT SPL, is partial to death metal music (don't ask. It is predominated by Scandinavian bands and no, he is not suicidal). I've told him many of his t-shirts with the bands depicted on them are not scout appropriate - the imagery is questionable.. But how about a White Stripes t-shirt with two pandas, one playing drums, another a guitar? Not a problem in my view. By allowing him to wear these things I don't alienate him from Scouting (his dad is already SM so that's one knock against scouting right there for a 17 year old) and because of his involvement (and guitar playing skills, long hair, and "coolness" factor) in the program many of the middle school kids surmize that Scouting while not "cool" in and of itself, surely is not mutually exclusive with the coolness factor. Now, that may all seem very trivial to most sane adults but the kids from 13 - 16 are massively influenced by what the most casual comment their peers make.

Yes, good post fgoodwin. Hunt - yes, Class A and Class B are nicknames. But if you've read over many of the BSA training literature, one of the things they frown upon are nicknames. The terms came out of the military and like it or not, the BSA has tried to distance the Boy Scouts from a few things - the military & hunting to name a few. So, I do not use of the terms Class A and Class B in front of the Scouts in our troop. It just adds to the confusion.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Well, after the BOR thread and my logic neurons firing on all cylinders - if a patrol got mixed up how do you know if they were bad orienteers or the previous patrol were bad map makers? The real point I think is there is no need to go to a pre-established orienteering course. Go ahead and make one yourself. That is what we have always done with our troop. Yes, it takes some work and we only do it about once a year but it really isn't that difficult. To "modernize" we now usually have an outing where we do orienteering in the morning and then geo-caching (GPS not compass) in the afternoon. Personally, I like the orienteering better.

The BSA is pretty clear in their literature that while the BSA uses Uniforms as a method, Uniforms are not required in order to be a Boy Scout. If the BSA say's uniforms aren't required, how could they possibly make a rule that says a Scout must be in uniform in order to go to, let alone pass, a BOR? I'm sorry, but the above really bugs me. Yes, owning a uniform (or wearing one) is not a requirement for becoming of member of the BSA. However, neither is knowing how to swim, knowing the Scout Oath, ability to tie a bowline, etc. but yes these are requirements for other things. We can debate all we want if "proper attire" can be construed as a requirement for a BOR but I think it is fairly black and white that yes, the BSA may make proper attire a requirement - Scout should be neat in his appearance and should be in a coat and tie or his uniform, which should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly - I interpret that as a requirement.

While not one mile long, I had two of our older scouts place masking tape markers on the church basement floor and make an orienteering course out of them. Start each patrol at a different mark and give each of them a bearing and distance and see how well manipulate the course. Winners got M&Ms.

I care about the uniform method but alas, not all of the adult leadership in our troop does IMO. What I would like to see (and my second son is the type to do this) is for him to go into a BOR not in uniform and when questioned on that fact simply ask the committee memebers who are sitting on his board why they are not in uniform. Unfortunately, I've failed miserably in trying to get the committee members to wear a uniform. They think that is utterly ridiculous. The only members that do are the committee chair (an Eagle Scout) and the advancement chair (my wife).(This message has been edited by acco40)

First, yes - it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks other than the MBC. But since you asked my opinion... My understanding of the English language leads me to believe that as the requirement is stated - Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent. - any combination of days and nights would suffice as long as they met the other requirements (Scouting event, tent you pitched unless ..., etc.) Stating that one may use a week of long-term camp does not preclude using a two week long period or any other period for that matter. In OJ's case as you described it to me - it was in a tent that either he or the camp pitched, was a Scouting event - so yes I would have counted that.

I hear you. I've had cases of parents calling their child's employer for goodness sakes! I'd die if that ever happened to me!

We all know (or should know) the 8 methods, one of which is the uniform. To clarify an earlier post, on the rare occasion when the BOR had a Scout show up for a scheduled BOR right before a troop meeting out of uniform, the Scout did not "fail" or "not pass" his BOR, he didn't have one. There is a difference. FScouter, if a Scout shows up for a meeting dishelveled, shirt tail out, no neckerchief or hat (when the troop has those items as part of their uniform), cut-off denim shorts - does that mean the troop is not using the uniform method? What constitutes that a troop is utilizing the uniform method? Barry, a BOR gains the fact that a Scout has respect and cares about the wishes of the BOR when he wears his uniform (if requested) and shows disrespect and a cavalier attitude if he does not (or memory loss, or poverty, or .. - the BOR can usually figure out which). If I was going for a job interview and the company requested that I wear a pink carnation on my lapel, I would respect their wishes. I've tried to teach my boys (with very little success) that when they wear their pants way low with 50% of their boxer shorts hanging out - scout uniform or not - that many adults find that behavior disrespectful. This is regardless of their intent. It is their option to adjust their behavior or not according the situation. Their actions, I believe, say something - albeit not everything, about their character. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Right or wrong this is what our unit does. First, as Scoutmaster I am not the gatekeeper to the BOR accept for the fact of signing the Socuts book. That is, I don't escort him to his BOR (if anyone does, it is the SPL). I've never set foot in a BOR except for an EBOR. Second, yes the Scout should be neat in his appearance and should be in a coat and tie or his uniform, which should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly, although For the life of me I don't recall the shirt and tie phrase. At one BOR, a Scout was told to come back when he had on his uniform (he had on only his untucked field uniform shirt). However, we did swim checks and the troop performed three BORs that evening too at a neighborhood pool. I'm proud to say that my oldest son passed his BOR for his silver palm and he had on his field uniform. Two other boys passes their BORs (2nd class and Tenderfoot) while in their swim trunks. The call goes to the BOR members.

you remember on the Scouter forum who Rooster7 is.

I've had problems with cell phones. I highly discourage cell phones for the youth but if a parent has an issue with that they should let me know. Scouts who get homesick usually get worse when they talk to their parents. Our summer camp is about 2.5 hours away with no traffic or construction. Our council, for the first time, has elicited the help of a firm that will run emails both two and from for a fee. Tokens are purchased and when a email is sent to camp, a print-out is made and delivered to the Scout. When the Scout wants to email back, he writes it on a form and it is entered in a computer and emailed. Sort of like "fast" letter writing. It will be interesting to see how this works. From my experience, a letter (something physical) is a godsend. Better that a phone call and much, much better than an email. It is so easy for parents to pre-write a few notes to their Scout and mail it the day he leaves for camp. It will then usually arrive mid-week - just when first year campers are at their worst wit hhomesickness. That cheers them up, gets them over the hump and by Friday they don't want to leave the next day!

I thought that only the national council could determine what was the BSA uniform. I was not aware that individual councils could do that (other than approve things like CSPs, neckerchiefs, etc.). For example, for the national jamboree a contingent troop, just like any other, may design a troop hat and neckerchief but has no authority to state that "Dockers" are the official pants.

This old dog needs a few more whippings! While in uniform, taking off one's hat shows about as much respect as taking off one's pants. Next time you watch a sporting event, parade, etc. where there is a military color guard - watch how many individuals of the color guard remove their hats. I'll give you a hint, it is less than one. While in uniform, indoors or out, during a flag ceremony one should not remove their hat for the purpose of the flag ceremony. Now if one is in a house of worship or any other place where the removal of a hat is customary (flag ceremony or not) then go ahead and remove the hat. Again, while in uniform, indoors or out, during a flag ceremony one should not remove their hat for the purpose of the flag ceremony. The BSA has more than one uniform (and none of them start with "class"). Thus, if the Scouts want to keep their troop hat on while wearing a Scout t-shirt, scout shorts and scout socks - that's great. My big pet peeve is the goofy looking right hand to the chest, elbow out, pivot at the elbow salute that some troops do. Where in the heck did that originate?

Yes, my eyes were not on the uniform the SM was wearing. From: http://www.boyscouttrail.com/scoutmastermusings.asp Deal or No Deal Scoutmaster Scoutmaster Adam Hansen of Troop 421 chartered to the LDS - San Antonio 8th Ward - North Stake won over $250K on Deal or No Deal tonight. Congratulations to Mr. Hansen on his winnings! The show seemed interesting enough for me to watch when I happened to see a preview showing a man in a scouting uniform. Mr. Hansen seems like a nice guy and wound up doing very well on the show as far as stopping at the best time, taking the money, and getting out. I was very surprised when the MC, Howie Mandel, challenged Mr. Hansen to wear his scoutermaster uniform to continue the game and he came back after the break with it on. From the insignia, it appears to be his official uniform - red shoulder loops, World Scouting emblem, US Flag, "Boy Scout of America" over the pocket, Alamo Area Council shoulder patch, and 421 troop numerals. It even had a BSA neckerchief slide. So, I figure it's really his uniform. So, why the surprise? Well, the BSA policy on wearing the uniform goes something like this: Wear the uniform for Scouting activities and events. "Deal or No Deal" is hardly that. Scout uniforms are not worn to political events or rallies, protests or demonstrations where its appearance could reasonably be used to imply BSA support for a particular political cause or candidate. I guess "Deal or No Deal" isn't political. Uniforms are not used to promote a commercial product or business except as approved by the National Executive Board. Hmmmmm. Did this scouter get approval from the BSA to wear his uniform in the hopes of getting Scouting out in front of the public? The show was filmed in California and he came all the way from Texas, so I don't think the uniform was a surprise to him - it was probably brought along on the plane. Did he just collaborate with the show's producers and they came up with all this Scouting theme, or were higher-up BSA folks involved? With the marketing drive going on for the upcoming 100th Anniversary, I wonder if we'll be seeing more 'exposure' like this to get Scouting out to the masses. If this wasn't planned by the BSA, I wonder if any reprimand will be waiting for that scoutmaster when he gets home. With $260K+, he probably doesn't care too much, but it would be interesting to hear. As you can see in the picture, the models were also dressed up in scout-wannabe outfits. If you look closely, you can see that they are not official uniform pieces at all. There were no emblems except for the troop emlems which matched each girl's suitcase number which I thought was clever. I did notice that the scoutmaster patch on the contestant's uniform was sewn onto his right pocket instead of on his sleeve - weird. I've never seen that one before. One thing that did bother me watching the show was continually mentioning "for the boys" as if the contestant was raising money for his troop. I believe the MC, the contestant, his wife and brothers, and even a model used the term. But, when discussing uses for the money, all I heard was "new house". Well, maybe the scouts will get new tents or something cool. Okay, back to me again (acco40). For another opinion ... From the Hear of Virginia Council Contributed by Todd Martin Wednesday, 11 June 2008 Deal or No Deal television game show On June 11, NBC's game show Deal or No Deal will feature a Scoutmaster from the Alamo Area Council in San Antonio as a contestant. Deal or No Deal producers contacted the national office a few weeks ago to notify us they had independently selected a BSA volunteer as a contestant and to ask for ways to include BSA marks and logos in the production. In keeping with their show format, which includes relevant themes, the show encouraged the Scoutmaster to wear his field uniform during the show. Also, they discussed using BSA uniforms for wardrobe of the shows female models. Throughout the process, creative license was not in our control and we discouraged the use of uniform pieces in this manner. Despite the show's decision to use uniforms in this manner, overall we appreciate the positive opportunity for a BSA volunteer to participate in this popular show. The producer of this episode is a Life Scout and member of the Order of the Arrow. He indicated they desired to produce a show that was positive for both NBC and for Scouting. If you have questions contact Brad Nesheim at 804-204-2611.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Huh? The requirement states that he may use a week ... So you believe he must use a week? (question addressed to gonzo, not Eamonn)(This message has been edited by acco40)

Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent. Above is the requirement as written. As always, the MBC is the gatekeeper. My interpretation is that one could camp 40 times at a Scout activity - 20 individual days, 20 individual nights and that would suffice or one could also camp for 20 consecutive days and nights and that would suffice too. Now, I'm curious, has anyone ever not camped under the sky? Maybe only in the southern hemisphere? (This message has been edited by acco40)

I went to a concert this weekend (Black Lips & Raconteurs) and the only song I really knew from the Black Lips was the Bo Diddley classic - Mona. It was also about the only song my 17 year old Eagle scout son didn't know. God did I feel old. (This message has been edited by acco40)