InquisitiveScouter

I've had enough of these conversations with adults who are not adhering to uniform standards, that I really do not go after youth much anymore. The conversation kind of goes like this... http://www.scoutsforequality.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/isa_composite_320.jpg "Oh, that's a different patch. What does that mean?" "It's my knot showing support for LGBTQIA+." "Is that an official BSA knot?" "No, I just like to wear it." "Did you know that was against BSA's uniform policy?" "Yeah, I just like to wear it." "So, what does it mean to you that "A Scout is Obedient"? Usually the conversation ends there. People know they are wrong, but their sense of personal expression carries more authority than their sense of integrity in adhering to established standards. You cannot convince people with anything other than setting the correct example, and pointing out the error. If adults will not adhere to standards, we have no ground to stand on to require youth to do so.

If you know the Scout owns a uniform, then you can hold the Scout to the standard. The key here is, do not let owning a uniform be a barrier to participation. But, if they have one, you can expect the Scout to wear it. Also, establish that expectation up front in your Troop SOP's (or whatever you have.) If you have established that expectation (I recommend in writing) and the Scout shows up dressed otherwise, then ask them why. Then (as long as the Scout is "clean and neat in appearance and dressed appropriately) (how's that for a subjective assessment??) the BOR can make a judgment "according to the Scout's means" This standard must apply to all within the Troop. A BOR CAN reject a Scout due to uniforming "...as long as they are dressed to the above description." Swim trunks and flip flops would be out. G2A: 8.0.0.4 Wearing the Uniform—or Neat in Appearance It is preferred a Scout be in full field uniform for any board of review. As much of the uniform as the Scout owns should be worn, and it should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly. It may be the uniform as typically worn by the Scout’s troop, crew, or ship. If wearing all or part of the uniform is impractical for whatever reason, the candidate should be clean and neat in appearance and dressed appropriately, according to the Scout’s means, for the milestone marked by the occasion. Regardless of unit, district, or council expectations or rules, boards of review shall not reject candidates solely for reasons related to uniforming or attire, as long as they are dressed to the above description. Candidates shall not be required to purchase uniforming or clothing to participate in a board of review

@Mrjeff, I share your confusion over uniforms. When a standard is not held, it is no longer a standard. When those who are supposed to be in "authority" do not adhere to a published standard, then followers can disregard all published standards. It's the broken window theory. You can see this attitude prevalent everywhere. Cultivate your own garden, and those who seek your virtue of excellence will follow. Leave the rest to their own...

Because it isn't a revenue generator like patches are 😜

Mummer's parade? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DmG5TudEg8BU&ved=2ahUKEwjsjPrYhrP5AhXOFlkFHSZnDPcQxa8BegQIDBAF&usg=AOvVaw12nd9NsHLSzD-ae_E5r_3b

Marianas parade???

You're just a troublemaker 😜

Welcome! You are in the right place!!

When they complete their AOL, many come to our Troop because they want to do winter camping.

I dunno... I think I saw someone flying a kite back in May, and he looked like he was having a tiny bit of fun

I have seen some thrown out as well... many for good cause. It's the internal power politics I think @Eagle94-A1 refers to. Stuff that the guidebooks don't talk about, but that is there plain as day. Never been thrown out, either, but have seen a fair share of unethical behavior from volunteers and professionals. You can paint folks from both groups with that brush...

https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/bills?bid=hr4777-117&id=D000022208&year=2021

How many councils have you served in to make this assessment??

Still no movement on HR 4777 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/4777/text

As long as it is within the G2AI framework, I am fine with it. Outside that, you are setting a poor example. This is the key. Example. Using the uniform to make a social or political statement is the worst...

Comments I heard from staff this past week: "I know what the Scout Handbook says, but we don't do it that way here, so we don't teach it that way." Reference to knife sharpening... "If your compass has a bubble in it, it won't point the right way." https://www.advnture.com/features/compass-bubbles "Scouts who are not swimmers can go in a canoe with a buddy if that Scout is a swimmer." "We play To The Colors first, then Retreat while lowering the flag because is is a slower tune. And that is what we have always done..." "We gathered the whole staff to go out and try to scare the bear off of camp property." "I don't really know how to define a mammal." Mammal Study MB Instructor at beginning of class. "I don't see a problem with a Troop performing 'Amish Paradise' for the campfire." Profanity, profanity, profanity... etc. etc. etc. Gotta pay the fees into the Victim's Compensation Fund!

Attend some of their meetings and observe. Ask questions. Don't offer an assessment until you have attended several unit functions. Walk a mile in the unit's shoes. Go camping with them. Be a white hat, not a black hat. Find out if they filed a JTE last year. See if you can get their history for the past few years. Ask if they use JTE as a measurement tool. I do not even know who our Unit Commissioner is (this week). Don't be that guy.

Love it!

I have worked on 15 Summer Camp staffs, attended National Camping School 5 times, and attended, as a unit leader, 12 Summer Camps... so I am at 27+ Summer Camp experiences. I think I am qualified to make an assessment... The camp we just returned from was the worst run I have ever encountered. Our unit leadership actually considered packing up Tuesday night and leaving. And the myriad of problems stemmed from one basic issue, or were exacerbated because of it: Overbooking to try to recover lost funding from COVID years... The council leadership put money ahead of program quality. By far... We had about 675 people (youth and adults) using camp facilities, campsites, and program areas built to service about 350-400. Feedback from our Scouts was brutal, but honest. (At the leaders' outbrief, we presented feedback from our PLC, tempered by us adults for camp leadership consumption, in the hopes of their accepting feedback.) Our PLC corporate memory will keep us from even considering this camp for the next six years, I guess... IM me if you want the Camp name. I'd like to save them the embarassment in a public forum, in the hope that they will learn from their error. Please, only ask if you need to know because you are considering camps in the northeast.

I prefer the minimalist approach as well. It is also BSA policy. "With the exception of the Cub Scout badges of rank, members wear only the insignia that show their present status in the movement. Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered. Previously earned badges and insignia—not representing present status—make a fine display on a BSA red patch vest, on a trophy hide or blanket, exhibited in the home of the recipient, or at functions where such a display is invited. Scouts may wear only temporary patches (no badges of rank) on the back of the merit badge sash." Here are some personal preferences I follow (these are actually G2AI rules, too): 1. Never wear jamboree insignia from anything other than the last jamboree. "No more than two jamboree patches may be worn on the shirt—one current national jamboree patch above the right pocket and one current world jamboree patch on the right pocket" (G2AI rule that others frequently blow off.) (Not the jamboree you attended in 1985!) 2. No more than nine knots. "The number of knots is limited to three rows of three (a total of nine knots)." (G2AI rule that others frequently blow off.) And ditch the knots of programs you are not currently involved in. I.E. I am no longer involved in Cub Scouts, so I do not wear any awards earned from that program. For the longest time, for simplicity, I wore only my Eagle Scout knot. I often consider returning to that. 3. No more than one temporary patch. (G2AI rule that others frequently blow off.) I wear a NCS patch as long as my current certification lasts, then remove. 4. No unauthorized patches or accoutrements. (G2AI rule that others frequently blow off.) etc, etc, etc, I do wish they would make a change to G2AI to allow, explicitly, the use of velcro on uniforms. (Just publish the color code...)

Um...errr... No I would that this were the case. And this is how it is supposed to be. But it is not reality. Not in any of the six councils I have been active in. And it is, somewhat, a spectrum. In those six, two have been closer to the ideal you outline above, two closer to some sort of SE dictatorship (including current council), and two in the middle. In our council, the SE can and does red-line (or blacklist...use the color of your choice) volunteers from District and Council volunteer positions routinely, without revoking their BSA memberships. Here, be a kool-aid drinker, or be excluded from meaningful service in those venues.

Welcome! Once official, always official!

Oh, it's right here ... 😜

I talked with the pastor (Institution Head) of our Chartered Organization two days ago about this. If BSA tanks, the pastor fully supports us continuing a Scouting youth group, as long as we secure our own insurance policy.