InquisitiveScouter

Putting bling on their uniforms is gonna be tough!

And, if you are paying someone to create a good program, do you think they are going to come back to you and say, "The solution is less programming, and and more emphasis on unstructured fun in the outdoors!" ??? https://childmind.org/article/why-kids-need-to-spend-time-in-nature/

Mad props to that Scout!!

Define religion... you could make a statement that Boy Scouts is your religion, and that you worship Lord B-P. If the state gives tax breaks to a "religion" but not to other non-profits, then that is a state "establishing a religion"...

Could you enter this in a will? Disposition of a settlement in your favor, that is?

We offer an orientation to parents, and spend a great deal of time on "How do we keep your kids safe?" Removing adults without children in the program is a recipe for failure. They're the ones with the "bandwidth" available to make such an admittedly complex program as Scouting work (well). We encourage our new parents to camp with us. We require YPT, and background checks (usually free) per our state law in PA. We did have a parent wish to camp, without sufficient time to complete the above. We allowed it, but said they must, at all times, be with one of our registered adults. They were allowed NO supervisory role, including driving Scouts to the outing (other than their own), per our state law for volunteer clearance requirements. It is a mixed bag here. Our experience is that there is safety in numbers... of adults that is. It is unusual for us to have fewer than four adults on a trip. We are often in the 8-10 range. Makes for a nice adult Patrol

When we disguise our feelings as thought, we make all nonsense possible.

You are correct: the G2SS states "registered leaders" versus registered unit leaders. I asked this same question regarding MB counselors to our council three years ago, and got conflicting answers through DE and FD, and was asked by our FD to ask the YP folks at national (which he later denied --- wished I'd had that one in writing, as in our conversations he relayed he had spoken to SE about it 😜 ) YP national folks generated a somewhat scathing response, delivered by Michael Johnson himself, that I should just listen to council and stop trying to circumvent their registration policies. LOL. The letter of the law answer is ambiguous, at best. From national, 'MB counselors do not qualify, but clarify with your council.' From our local council, 'just don't get us in trouble, and have you made your FOS contribution yet?' The spirit of the law answer is: get approval from your COR to take them with your unit One final thought... G2SS now says "Adult program participants must register as adults and follow Youth Protection policies." I interpret this to mean adults (parents) may observe our program just fine. But if an adult wishes to participate in the program (like camping overnight), then they "must register as adults." NOTE: it does not delimit which positions qualify as a "registered adult" So, MB counselors would fit into the criteria of that wording. Bottom Line: If you really want an answer to your question, you must get your SE's read on it, if you can 😜 In general, any time there is ambiguity in policy (and it is written in there intentionally, I often think...) then National will defer to your Scout Executive's ruling. As some here are fond of saying (paraphrasing)... Never ask for a rule: you won't like the answer you get.

Committee Members ought to go camping (or visit an overnight camping trip) to observe the performance of the SM Corps. It is not the ideal that MCs would be there as the required adult supervision. Totally concur with @fred8033... except one point... Scouts should ideally work with Committee Members for their Positions of Responsibility, where appropriate. e.g., Scribe, Webmaster, Librarian, Chaplains Aide, Historian, etc. etc., as these are administrative in nature. For other PORs, it is ONLY appropriate to be under the mentorship of someone in the SM Corps... e.g., SPL with SM, OA Rep with ASM OA Advisor, Troop Guide with ASMs, etc. etc. IMHO, and in a perfect world, each Scout in a POR would have an adult (or older Scout) mentor to help them develop and execute SMART goals for their POR. We hit that mark about 25- 30% of the time.

Yes. You will not find specific direction to have IOLS to take youth camping. CAVEAT: Your council may invoke stricter requirements that the G2SS!!! Check your council's unit leader training policy. If your Council says you have to have IOLS, then you must. Read through the entire G2SS. Depending on the activity, different levels of training are required... For example, under the Camping section, ONE leader must have Hazardous Weather Training: Supervision of camping activities must include qualified, registered, adult leadership. [no specifications for "qualified" other than the verbiage that follows] At a minimum, one leader present is current in Hazardous Weather Training for all unit types. It is recommended that all leaders complete this training every two years. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/ And for Swimming: Adult leaders supervising a swimming activity must have completed Safe Swim Defense training within the previous two years. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/ And for Snorkeling: In addition to Safe Swim Defense training and the 21-year-old minimum age, the supervisor must be an experienced snorkeler. At a minimum, the supervisor must possess skills and knowledge matching the Snorkeling BSA Award and have experience with environments similar to those of the planned activity. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/ And for "boating" activities ( " All activity afloat..."): At least one leader must be trained in first aid including CPR. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/ etc., etc., etc.

This, but the primary point is that those adults are approved by your CO to be registered in their Scout program. The CO approves and has authority over ALL adult leaders in their chartered Scouting program. If the CO doesn't want someone involved in their Scouting program, they (through the COR) can direct them to leave. The only reason council would intervene is if the adult does not meet BSA Membership Standards (usually revealed in criminal background check). This is why two units are not to intermix activities without council approval... Council would ask if the CO's approve the inter-unit activity and "accept" each others leaders. If the two CO's approve of the inter-unit activity, council really doesn't have a dog in the fight. If council pushed it, then the way around council? Each units' leaders and youth would multiple-register in the other unit... (for free and can be done by the members/units themselves now on my.scouting.org ... no need to involve the registrar) 😜 And BTW, all that background info on the Adult Application ? That is for the CO!! Read the fine print on the CO approval: "APPROVALS FOR UNIT ADULTS: I have reviewed this application and the responses to any questions answered “Yes,” and have made any follow-up inquiries necessary to be satisfied that the applicant possesses the moral, educational, and emotional qualities to be an adult leader in the BSA" Notice the slightly different wording above the Council approval: "APPROVAL FOR COUNCIL AND DISTRICT ADULTS: I have reviewed this application and have made any follow-up inquiries necessary to be satisfied that the applicant possesses the moral, educational, and emotional qualities to be an adult leader in the BSA." Yes, Committee Members can serve as adult supervision on outings. If BSA required them to be registered as SM or SA, then they would say that. Now, two registered and fully trained SM / SA types are the best scenario...

That is so sad. Form without substance... The lesson for that son is that the outward man is more important than the inward. We will all suffer from the fruits of that mentality. See above...

I'll channel Jefferson: Time indeed changes manners and notions, and so far we must expect institutions to bend to them. But time produces also corruption of principles, and against this it is the duty of good citizens [Scouters] to be ever on the watch, and if the gangrene is to prevail at last, let the day be kept off as long as possible.

YGBKM!!! No, I can attest to these issues as well... but I am not undecided on the issue of Insta-palms.

They are conflating that with Camping MB requirements.

You are wrong on both accounts.

Character matters 😜

Character matters 😜

All good advice! If you choose to participate in some activities, plan on waiting in line for some of the most popular ones (ala Disney). Bring something to occupy your time while waiting (or make friends and chat!) Get two portable batteries for your cell phone. Fully charged before departure. (Make sure you have a charging cord to connect portable battery to phone, and a spare cord, too! Would be best if all your connections used the same type cord... make that investment.) Take lots of pictures. Camp security is no joke... A Scout is Trustworthy. 50,000 ARE NOT! I have had items stolen at Jamboree. Make sure you know what the emergency plan is, and where to get to for lightning (or other) safety. Have a blast!

I have seen all the above... Years ago, in the dim ages.... we had an SE that directed the OA lodge to staff and run a council camporee, on pretty short notice. The LEC discussed it, voted on it, and decided no, we cannot do that. SE said, (paraphrasing) Look at at the glossary of names in your OA Handbook. See the one that says "Netami Gegeyjumhet"? That means Supreme Chief of the Fire. That's me. And, you must always remember, the Supreme Chief of the Fire can put the fire out!" We staffed the camporee... and it was pretty good, too 😜 https://oa-bsa.org/article/ask-chairman-role-supreme-chief-fire https://oa-bsa.org/uploads/publications/GOA-202208.pdf Within the council, the Scout executive is the final authority over the Order of the Arrow and, for this reason, holds the title of Supreme Chief of the Fire. It is the Scout executive’s job to see that the lodge adheres to national policy. Each year the Scout executive appoints an adult volunteer to serve as the lodge adviser. As Deputy Supreme Chief of the Fire, the lodge adviser acts on behalf of the Scout executive in guiding the day-to-day affairs of the lodge. This person normally serves as a member of the council’s camping or program committee and is frequently selected to serve on the council executive board. In some councils, the Scout executive serves as the lodge staff adviser, but in most cases appoints a member of the professional staff to that position. The staff adviser, as Chief of the Fire, acts on behalf of the Scout executive in giving guidance to the lodge adviser and the lodge leadership. With support and counsel from the Scout executive, it is the staff adviser's role to see that the lodge adheres to national policy.

That looks exactly like the first backpack I bought from Sky City department store (1979), using money I'd earned mowing grass over the summer! The program has change immensely, but enjoy!!

LOL, yes it is 😜 Technically, only "entities" can "own" property, including money. Unless you incorporate your unit, it cannot "own" anything. If our COR ever wants a financial statement, we would subtract out of the bank account balance any monies paid by Scouts or parents into Scout accounts. Any monies fundraised belong to the COR. All property and gear belong to the COR. Now, they cannot just "take" your funds and put it in their general account. If your unit has a bank account, only the signatories on that account can dispose of the funds. If our COR demanded our cash, we would pay back all monies deposited by parents and Scouts, and equally distribute all remaining monies and pay tuition for Summer Camp (which should just about wipe out the fund), and start looking for a new COR that we'd go to after Summer Camp. Since the monies are used for the purposes of Scouting, they'd have no recourse... Avoiding a question does not answer it... See answer above... Sounds like most of the voters in our country 😜

You will not find a clear cut answer to the question. And the question is really, "When does the Cub Scout program end?" Here are various answers you could find supporting arguments for in the literature: A. 11 Years old. The reasoning is this: There are three criteria for joining Scouts (you must meet one to join): " 1) ...at least 10 years old, currently in the fifth grade and register on or after March 1st: 2) OR have earned the Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old, 3) OR are age 11 but have not reached age 18." Although the criteria do not specifically say it, you could interpret the intent that 11 year olds (who were never in Cubs) get vectored to Scouts. https://www.scouting.org/about/faq/question1/ Couple with that the verbiage from Guide to Advancement 4.1.1.0, "In situations like those found in home-schooling or nontraditional education, where youth are working at grade levels that may not correspond to their ages, Cub Scouts should work on the rank that relates to their age, rather than their grade. When doing so, take the joining requirements for Scouts BSA into consideration to avoid completing the Arrow of Light too long before meeting the minimum age requirement for Scouts BSA. Cub Scouts do not “go back” and work on ranks designed for earlier grade levels, even if missed due to their time of joining. Likewise, Cub Scouts do not “move ahead” to work on the next rank until the completion of the current school year (or until their next birthday if they are transitioning by age), with the exception of those who earned the Webelos rank in the fourth grade." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf B. February-ish. Chart from BSA site at https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/CubScoutMeetingGuide/PDF/Appendix/511-807.pdf says "Fifth-grade Webelos Scouts graduate in February and begin meeting with a Troop in March." C. 01 June. Same chart above shows the program year beginning in June. So you could make the argument to extend to that... D. Cubs Scouts ends a the end of fifth grade. See chart at https://pdscouting.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Required-Adventures-Chart-for-Ranks.pdf Program upper limit is fifth grade. this also aligns with criteria above. Also aligns with Scout joining criteria in A. C. 31 August. One chart, still available from BSA at https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/26-004.pdf shows the Cub program year beginning on 01 September. Probably the weakest argument... The saddest issue here is "I have a parent who really wants his son to earn the AOL." Too much to unpack here... The heart of the requirements issue is how to meet the requirement for participation: "1. Be an active member of your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old." If the Webelos den does not exist after crossover, with whom will the young man participate?? He could accomplish this (I suppose) in a few ways: 1. Council allows him to register as Lone Cub Scout, and parent handles it all... 2. Parent registers as a WDL, and handles it all (because parents cannot sign off requirements for AOL), including perhaps taking him to one last year of Webelos resident camp with another unit, and then the Scout fleets up to BSA after six months is done. 3. Have him work on his own requirements while hanging with the rising AOL den until complete.

Nuanced doublespeak... "encouraged to avoid ... joint participation in community events or activities" You could interpret that to mean Girl Scouts are "encouraged to avoid" placing flags on veterans graves because BSA units are there doing it at the same time.... hogwash Or, you could interpret that to mean Girl Scouts are "encouraged to avoid" walking in the Memorial Day Parade because BSA units are doing the same. ("Encouraged to avoid" is too slippery,,, just say "prohibited" or "shall not") Same interpretation applies to "...exclusive to the Girl Scout program" I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts, most GSUSA units are completely ignoring this, just as they are in our neck of the woods. It would be more clearly understood if the GSUSA put out guidance to say GSUSA units are not to participate in events "sponsored" by the BSA.... ala District or Council events, National Jamborees, HABs, etc.