InquisitiveScouter

Spot on!

@5thGenTexan, to further clarify, you need to coordinate that with your CO because you need their EIN (and address and contact info) to provide to your wife's company. The company needs that info to make the donation, and for tax reporting purposes. Also, ask your wife to find out how the company makes the donation. If by paper check, mailed, then that's probably all the info you need. If they do electronic deposit, then you might be able to have them send it directly to your unit bank account by providing ABA Routing and Account numbers.

Are you referring to this chart?? It does not clarify. The stipulation that Scouts, BSA may have "Weekend Campouts" is distinguished from the "Pack Overnighters" only in that Pack events must be at "Council-Designated Locations Only". Throw in the Family Camping for Webelos Scouts block, and it only adds to this confusion. Here is the official link to the chart, BTW: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-686.pdf That document has no links in G2SS pointing to it, that I can find. (Would someone else check this, please?) The only document I can see linked from G2SS is this one: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-685.pdf Which, again, adds no clarity. Back then, the other reference to this was pointed out by @malraux, which is still a valid link: https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/activities/cub-scout-camping/ Now, that guidance DOES add clarity. However, burying this significant restriction in only a few obscure locations is a poor practice. Something like that ought to spelled out unequivocally in the G2SS. And, he is not a "messenger." I believe this @RichardB is THE BSA Director Environmental Health and Safety, and his LinkedIn profile describes his job as including, among other things, "Provides content and editorial leadership for Scouting Safely website and EHS Publications. Provides safety and health interpretations for standards, rules and policies and procedures. " (emphasis added) If that is not his position, then I'll be happy to withdraw the arrow from the messenger's chest. 😛 https://youtu.be/DgK25o__0Hw

Are you sure someone filed your registration with the council? You can tell, if you have an account on my.scouting.org The phone app for scoutbook has little functionality, IMO Best to go to the website and use the online application. Have you logged in there?

Next year, have your wife's company make the donation to your CO. Coordinate with your CO ahead of time to ask about this and ask for the funds to be passed on to the Troop. This is perfectly fine, but your council will be livid.

Hey, man, just drink the kool-aid and pay the fees. Gotta FOS!! (Fund Our Salaries)

And here you are, making an assumption about "people who only have experience with others like themselves..." That is exactly the kind of gross generalization and stereotyping that we are opposed to. Physician, heal thyself. Deal with people individually. It is the only way... I don't hear this... because no one treats everyone the same. We all act differently around different people. I do not treat everyone the same. But I do strive to treat everyone fairly. There is a huge difference. I do not treat a 17 year old like I treat an 11 year old. I do not speak to women the same way I speak to men. I do not treat my elders like I treat my peers, or those junior to me... and on and on and on... We are and act differently depending on with whom it is we are interacting. This is a psychological behavior called "self-monitoring" https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-self-monitoring-5179838 And, just like any psychological behavior, it occurs on a spectrum. Too much or too little self-monitoring can lead to harm to self and others.

@DuctTape for National Commissioner! (It's been a while, so it needed saying again 😛 )

Just remember, Barry... You are unique! (Just like everyone else ) There is a deep danger in focusing on "identities." The result is a descent into tribalism. (We could improve the merit badge by removing this term and "equity" from the line-up.) https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-empathy/201903/when-tribalism-goes-bad Instead, we should craft questions in the discussion with Scouts along these lines: - Research an event or situation in US history where a person or group of people were discriminated against due to a trait which was innate. (skin color, height, sex, intelligence, physical ability, handedness, etc.) Explain what happened and the outcome. Are things different now? Why or why not? Relate this to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (Put this in Citizenship in the Nation.) - Research an event or situation in US history where a person or group of people were discriminated against due to a characteristic which was acquired. (such as religion, language, culture, political affiliation, education, economic status, etc.) Explain what happened and the outcome. Are things different now? Why or why not? Relate this to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (Put this in Citizenship in the Nation.) - Research an event or situation world history (excluding the US) where a person or group of people were discriminated against due to a trait which was innate. (skin color, height, sex, intelligence, physical ability, handedness, etc.) Explain what happened and the outcome. Are things different now? Why or why not? Relate this to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (Put this in Citizenship in the World.) - Research an event or situation in world history (excluding the US) where a person or group of people were discriminated against due to a characteristic which was acquired. (such as religion, language, culture, political affiliation, education, economic status, etc.) Explain what happened and the outcome. Are things different now? Why or why not? Relate this to the Scout Oath and Scout Law. (Put this in Citizenship in the World.) Until we start viewing people as unique and individual creations, we will never reach an egalitarian society. Never. (For example, race is a social construct, and has no basis in the science of genetics. And as long as we "focus" on it, it will be to our detriment.)

No notice. So, the councils had no input to the decision-making. Sound familiar?

Atheists?

Unsatisfactory. Several observations: 1. In reviewing the 2019 posts and your responses, you never answer the question at hand. You simply post a definition of "overnight" which in no way enlightens the questioning audience. (And you have repeated that here.) 2. You post a link to an instructor syllabus which is now defunct, therefore invalid to answer the question. 3. There are 72 instances of the word "overnight" in the currently available BALOO manual (2017 printing, see link). I reviewed each of them, and there is no clarification that a single night experience is dictated. Your previous post (at least the info in the link) seems to point to a 2018 version of the syllabus, so I dug up a copy of that too by searching for the pub number with "18" in it the identifier. (links to both are here:) https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-033(17)baloo.pdf https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/510-03318-BALOO_web_v2.pdf There are 78 instances of "overnighter" in the 2018 syllabus. Again, nothing limiting it to a single night in the context of any of the instruction. Appendix MM simply lists a "Sample Pack Camping Schedule" for a one night excursion. Nowhere is there a prescription that limits packs to this type of schedule. Could you see how, in a 204-page syllabus, where this is only potentially intimated on a one-page "sample", and not definitively spelled out anywhere else in the text, that this policy of a "single night camping trip limitation" is puzzling to anyone? BTW, BOTH are posted on the official BSA website. See notes above relating to multiple versions of policy documents. Same condemnation applies here. (Also, when you Google "BALOO Syllabus" the number one return is the 2017 link. Nowhere in those search returns is a hit on the 2018 syllabus. Even when you search "BALOO Syllabus 2018" you get no valid hits. You have to search specifically for "510-03318" to get that version. So, what do you think the average Cub Leader out there is gonna get in their searches?) 4. Even your lack of a direct answer in this thread is puzzling. Are you deliberately trying to be ambiguous? So, please answer this question directly: Is it National BSA policy that Cub Scout pack overnight experiences are limited to one single night only?

It was only a matter of time before the pot was stirred again 😛 BTW, slide 34: 15. How will you make sure that the merit badge is achieving its objectives? Like all BSA programs, we will continuously evaluate and improve the Citizenship in Society merit badge based on feedback shared by those within the Scouting program. Anybody been asked for any feedback? Anyone see an avenue mentioned in the slide show to provide feedback? https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/diversity_equity_and_inclusion/Citizenship-in-Society-Merit-Badge-Counselor-Guide-2021.pdf P.S. They don't care about your feedback...

Please pass some messages to the G2SS writing team: 1. Hire a good communicator. 2. Don't write so that you can be understood; write so that you can't be misunderstood. (Taft) see @scoutldr post above, for example. 3. Send your draft policies to someone outside the National organization, preferably to someone that your policies will affect (and who has to comply with them). Let them read them and then (in a verbal conversation) have them tell you what they read in their own words with some concrete examples of impact to their unit operations. If they cannot explain it back to you logically and apply your policy correctly, as you intend it, then you have missed the mark. Try again. 4. Never have two different versions of your policies on the official BSA page. Currently, the download version is still the Feb 2022 version, versus the online version, which is the (now) 2023 version. Although the caveat about this is on the website, this is unprofessional, and the practice should end. These two official sources should (must??) always be synchronized. It is not difficult to update the pdf and post the new version for download.

Ludicrous

I am working through this with a small group of Scouts now (9th graders). When we are done, I am going to ask them what their opinion is on the badge, and whether this was value-added for them. I'll let you know... I will say, in our first session, they were very guarded in their views, but when they began to share their ideas and research on the definitions, and each relayed what they had heard from friends, parents, teachers, and media, and how they thought much of this was unneeded in a merit badge. They came to some great consensus on what things "should mean" (their words, and I loved 'em). The most discussions centered around different ideas and examples of "identities," "equity," and "discrimination" and how they relate to Oath and Law. When they were relating the definitions to the Scout Oath and Law, one Scout even said something like (I'm paraphrasing), "it seems like a knee jerk reaction to have this badge to tell us about who we already are." For their second and third sessions, I had challenged them to come up with different examples for requirement 2. Here are the examples they came up with on their own and researched: - Truman and his decision to drop the bomb (wow) - Washington and his decision to commit treason against the King of England (wow) - Hoover and his orders against the Bonus Army (a negative example... wow) - Lincoln and the moral dilemma/decisions he faced on slavery (wow) - Warrant Officer Hugh Clowers Thompson, Jr. and his intervention in, and reporting of, the My Lai massacre (wow) I had asked them not only to tell about the person and the decision, but to really dig into "...options that leader had, why you believe they chose their final course of action, and the outcome of that action" After each Scout spoke, the others would ask questions about the person/decision , and many would look up the event and read a little about it (about 5-10 minutes) and share their thoughts (I did not require this... they asked to do it.) They generally agreed on a few things so far: 1) It is easier to judge someone through the lens of history. But it is important to place yourself in their shoes to genuinely get an understanding of the times, circumstances, and troubles they faced. (Then we had a discussion about empathy for people living right now as they try to make ethical decisions, and understanding what set of values guide them...) 2) This stuff ought to be in the other Citizenship badges. (Their words, not mine...) 3) Everyone in our community is not on the same sheet of music when talking about the definitions. They mean different things to different people, and that causes confusion for them. (Their observations, not mine...) 4) They feel are being told "what to think" on some of these things, and they appreciate exploring them together without judgement or "correction". They appreciate being given the opportunity to research, discuss, talk, think, and find out "how to think" about these things, but that isn't directly addressed in the merit badge. 5) It is OK to hold a different view on the decision someone made, based on your values (Scout Oath and Law). For example, they were about evenly divided in their views on Truman and his decision to drop the bomb... Overall, I think what their initial dive into this badge shows is that our education system and our communities are not fostering critical thinking skills, rhetoric, debate, and ethics. And that they are genuinely afraid of expressing or exploring different ideas because they get chastised for thoughtcrime (my word (well, Orwell's), not theirs) at school and, yes, at home. I told them that is the value of free speech, to thoroughly test ideas, and to seek guidance and counseling from their parents if anything we discuss brings up further questions. More to follow...

https://youtu.be/i2uu6NF2inY

And payments into the victim compensation fund.

I recommend you hold on to your money, and give it in increments. Give an increment (say $25) to the council every time you have a positive interaction with a paid professional. Every time you have a positive interaction with a volunteer from another unit, give it to that unit. I'd love to see you post here about these incremental gifts. Let's see where Scouting is really happening.

How long do you think it takes a council to get a background check done? Parent wants to camp and unit turns in their application on Friday... goes camping that night. Background check won't be done for a loooonnnngggg time. Not buying that that is the drive behind this.

No, but they should be!

So, are you implying that MBCs are not background checked?

You hit the nail right on the head, partner 😜 Gotta pay those salaries. In 2019, Surbaugh made $1.1M (2019 is last public form I could find) https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/221576300_201912_990_2021030217778557.pdf $134M in assets sales in 2019 also... https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/221576300 compare that to the 2018 numbers...

No. Mr. Dad just has to sever the "connection" for the overnight... You could take that ad absurdum. All adults staying overnight in connection with a Scouting activity must be currently registered in an adult fee required position as listed or as an adult program participant. So, at bed time, he just says "Goodnight folks! I'm going to sleep on my own in a campsite I rented for myself. See you at breakfast!"

LOL, they should DRIVE over a bridge