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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter

  1. 1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    If this is the wrong spot for the question, Mods please feel free to move it to the right one.

    When will the transcript of the session that the CHURCHILL PLAN was discussed and how do I go about getting a copy of the transcript? No one in my council is mentioning anything about it, and when I do ask questions about it, I am told I am "spreading rumors," and "no one knows what is actually going to happen." Considering the leash that national does have over councils, national gets its way.



    Lol...so, in your council, asking questions is "spreading rumors"??  Truth is dead, and we have killed it.  (with a nod to Nietzsche)


    • Haha 1
  2. 59 minutes ago, clivusmultrum said:


     At our unit level I can tell you that none are excluded for religion or lack. I can also say there is a disinterest in  what the Natl. Org. Is up to.   The young people in our unit came from one of two or three different Cup Packs.  I’m pretty sure that not a one of them has read any such thing. The Troop recharters, dues are collected and they keep on Scouting.

    I think Scouts BSA will eventually land on the right note. It might be a few decades after everybody else. I was talking to some of our guys about what it is to be reverent and it quickly jumped over religious views and went to the reverence of old growth forests, sacred places where we honor those that have gone before, reverence in art museums….

    That is why I used the passive voice in the statement...  That is to say, if you are following the principles you signed up to in the application (agreement) you made with the BSA, then you cannot welcome atheists, as the national organization does not.

    BTW, I, too, disagree with BSA's position on this.  But that's not the point.

    When any prospective member, and family, comes to us, I make sure to review the application with them, and discuss the DRP.  (Full faith in advertising.)

    In all my years of Scouting, I have only had one family (adamant atheists) who would not agree with BSA's DRP, and chose not to find a rational way to accept the huge amount of wiggle room the DRP gives you.

    The individual Scout gets to define what his own duty to God is and means.  If a Scout chooses to say I do not believe in anything like that (however he defines it), and rejects the opportunity to define his own duty to God, then that person can simply not be a Scout.

    • Upvote 1
  3. 1 minute ago, clivusmultrum said:

     I don't see evidence that Atheists work on different values. I think they are welcomed and I’ll up my game.

    They are not welcomed currently.

    The application for membership excerpts the DRP...

    "The BSA maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership."

    How can one say the Scout Oath, and then then Scout Law, and then say he does not believe?  The contradiction is disqualifying.

    Agree that BSA has a problem with the Buddhist exception...  

    The way I accept them both is to adopt a mindset that they believe they are their own "god".  Insofar as you can define that...  That is, they are the author of their own moral and ethical standards...  Humanists, if you will...


    To be transparent, I also see many who profess a belief, but who then do not act accordingly.

    It is a very difficult thing to act as if God exists.  And somewhat terrifying...  I struggle with this constantly.

    • Upvote 1
  4. 28 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:


    For a VERY brief period, I want to say  it was 2014-16, a test out option was allowed by national. One of my friends was district training chair, and his eventual successor was one of those who did it.

    One of the reasons why I used staff that needed ITOLS, but I personally knew had the knowledge, skills, and abilities already and could teach the course. Plus ever since the training records S.N.A.F.U.  in 2007/08 I was told to ALWAYS list instructors as students as well.

    Wondered why they did this...makes sense.

  5. 5 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

    I did this for my COR.  Apparently our council hasn't updated anything.  She has a Silver Beaver along with a bunch of other knots.  Nada in the awards section.

    Very normal for this...record keeping isn't your average council's strong suit.

    • Sad 1
  6. 24 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    Still have issues with both today, even with technology. Back then I remember having to tell the Philmont Training Center Faculty member in my district that according to the council's records, he was untrained. That was not a fun experience.

    18 years ago when National told councils to clean up their training records, it was a nightmare. In my council, anyone who had training done over a year prior was "untrained." One of the issues was that  BSA decided only to list only the most current Training courses titles.  None of the older course titles were listed.And some of our Scouters took training in the 1960s. To deal with the situation, The council pro's told us to  use the dates for the original training, but put in the title and codes for the current training. That worked for about 2-3 years. Then National realized they screwed up by not including the older training, any added the older courses, as well as time lines for the courses. That deleted all the work that was done with the older courses as they were beyond the date ranges of the current courses. Thankfully I kept paper and digital copies of all my work, and just had to resubmit. However the council and some training chairs did not keep those records, and they had to redo all the work again.


    I had to laugh here when I put in my paperwork to be a Scoutmaster about 7 years ago now.  The council registrar told me I had to do IOLS...

    Eagle Scout, 15 years camp staff, former ASM/SM for 11 years, 4 x NCS grad (Scoutcraft x 2, Aquatics instuctor, Commissioner), Woodbadge (1992l...would they grandfather me for that requirement?  


    OK, so I took IOLS...and was deeply unimpressed.  There were three instructors that were awesome...the rest, I wondered why they were there. The level of knowledge and skills was extremely lacking.  I began to understand why Scouts repeatedly came up short on skills and knowledge.

    So, I volunteered to help teach for the next few years.  

    • Upvote 2
  7. Just now, RememberSchiff said:

    I still see both 30in and 36in sash at $11.99


    I think @PACAN means sash with average amount of merit badges...

    21 required for Eagle @ $2.79 current = $58.59, plus sash cost of $11.99 = $70.58

    [My Eagle has 39 MBs currently, so replacement cost would be $120.80}

    A 23% increase would make that $86.81...and you average Eagle Scout has many more than 21 MB's...

    I can see over $100 easy for that...

    • Thanks 1
  8. 15 minutes ago, yknot said:

    but that's not the place they come from for most of the people that raise them on this forum or at least I don't think so. For example, I'm not here because I like constantly pointing out BSA's failings, I'm here because I want BSA to stop failing. 

    Hear, hear!!

    • Thanks 1
  9. Involvement of Abused Alumni Post-Bankruptcy?


    Other than persons appointed to serve on governance committees as a result of the bankruptcy settlement, do you think BSA alumni who were abused will return to serve youth in the BSA?


    If so, what do you think they should or will do as BSA volunteers?


    Is a sense of reconciliation or forgiveness likely or even possible?


    Will BSA volunteer parents of today’s daughters and sons and those who step forward to lead the BSA in the future be perpetually held to account for the negligent oversight and evil acts of the past?


  10. 13 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

    It's the continual dumping.  Statements like: that's failure.

    As many have pointed out, the perception, mine included, is that National (and the local council) does its "dumping" on volunteers...consistently.

    I have never been a part of any organization that practices "shoot the messenger" more consistently than BSA.

    There are also a string of failures, demonstrating a pattern of disregard for BSAs mission and purpose, and a disregard for the value that adult volunteers bring to their portfolio, which many, including me, have experienced.  They are failures, because they are being PAID!!!  And many of them, extremely handsomely, to provide services and support to volunteers and youth, which they are not.

    If it was just you and me as volunteers, I'd cut you a great deal of slack.

    I know what Shinola is.  And I know that much of what I see from BSA is not Shinola.




    • Upvote 1
  11. 29 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

    hate group

    Hate group? 

    What prompted that?

    A hate group = 

    An organization whose goals and activities are primarily or substantially based on a shared antipathy towards people of one or more other different races, religions, ethnicities/nationalities/national origins, genders, and/or sexual identities. The mere presence of bigoted members in a group or organization is typically not enough to qualify it as a hate group; the group itself must have some hate-based orientation/purpose. [Anti-Defamation League]

    We have no specific shared goals, and no activities, other than sharing experiences and opinions.  This is a venue for open discussion and expression of ideas to flesh out thoughts and stances on issues.

    What specifically would you identify as indicative of a "hate group"?

    And remember @fred8033, your my mere presence here is not enough to qualify this as a hate group.

    BTW, I hate everyone equally, but sporadically.  Hate is an emotion.  You cannot control emotions.  How I choose to respond to my universal hatred is something I can control.  And I choose to respond with kindness.



  12. 21 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

    BSA does provide scoutbook

    BSA bought Scoutbook, and does not provide support for it.  When they ended the Customer Help Desk for my.scouting.org, they dumped all support requirements on the local registrars, without any warning or training.  Scoutbook support is now done by volunteers.  It seems like it takes an act of God to to elevate an issue through a registrar to the National support desk, but that is the only way National takes input now.  the volunteers of the Scoutbook User Advisory Council monitor the forums on my.scouting to help people.  National does not monitor the forums there, unless it is to ID disgruntled volunteers.  There is no direct support for the end-users.  That is a fail, my friend.

    Most of the really good features I use for Scoutbook are provided by the original developer through the Scoutbook Feature Assistant add-on...which BSA does not provide or control.

  13. 5 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

    I certainly hope BSA is looking at other organizations on the future of signing up adult volunteers.  There are groups out there that are far smaller that give a much better onboarding experience while limiting the demand on existing volunteers.


    • Haha 2
  14. https://generalliabilityinsure.com/small-business/youth-groups-insurance.html


    Abuse and molestation exposure is very high due to activities being focused on children. No coverage is available to the abuser. While there is some coverage available in the standard market for the youth group where the abuse takes place, it may be very restricted.

    More complete coverage should be purchased through specialized markets. The youth group must take all possible care to protect children from predatory adults and older children through criminal background checks, training, monitoring, and supervision, and report all allegations of abuse to the proper authorities.

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