Jump to content

InquisitiveScouter

Members
  • Content Count

    2338
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    97

Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter

  1. 2 minutes ago, cmd said:

    I think the map only piece is an excellent GUIDELINE. Our local camp has a permanent orienteering course and they have camp rangers available to teach kids how to use map and compass to find the controls. Cubs are welcome, but it's the same explanation whether you're in 1st grade or 10th.  Explaining how a topo map works and maybe using a compass to orient the map if there aren't clear enough landmarks to go by, then trying to follow the map alone would have been far more age-appropriate.  That said, as a member of the local orienteering club, I would argue that it's also how you should start out with the 10th grader, too, and not introduce sighting and finer details of compass work until they could read the map easily. In our area, it's actually pretty rare to need more than a properly oriented map. If that's the kind of course your scouts are on, it's going to seem like an especially useless skill.  I'd been orienteering several years before finally doing a 6 hour meet in an area with no trails and lots of impassable areas and it finally made sense to me why someone would need it! 

    One could argue that not teaching them to use a compass is a safety issue because having one discourages you from really reading the map closely, and that's the more important survival, but it's a real stretch.  I think it's really one of those "overwhelming little kids is bad for retention" arguments - when underwhelming them is twice as bad. 

    Or it might be a "save stuff for them to learn at the troop level" but orienteering was the lesson used to teach the EDGE method in my IOLS class and they were doing it completely wrong while stressing the importance of not stepping in and correcting the youth unless it was a safety issue.  I asked how the next kids were supposed to teach it correctly if they'd been taught wrong and the answer was that hopefully before teaching it they'd get a book out to refresh themselves and notice the error. WHAT?? I'd rather my child not be taught wrong things in the first place.  You know what's going to kill a youth's self-esteem and perceived value of scouting even faster than having an adult gently correct a youth instructor who misspoke? Having a scout go home excited and try to share his new knowledge and have someone not-so-gently tell him he's wrong. 

    I teach map and compass skills, and an Orienteering MB counselor, among other things.  @cmd gives perfect advice...

    The most important skill to have in navigation is map reading.  Most beginner or intermediate orienteering courses can be done with map reading only.

    I use a compass most frequently to tell me one thing --- Which way is magnetic north?  And I need to know that to orient my map.

    It does blow their mind when they put this together:  Every day at noon (for those of us who live in the northern hemisphere above the tropical line), your shadow points true north.  Use that to orient your map.

  2. 27 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

    Also, poor relativistic risk assessment, such as Lions and Tigers allowed to do bouldering, but not other activities with similar or higher risk factors.

    Yes, well, you have to dig into that a little more... "bouldering" as you may know it is not the same as "bouldering" as the BSA defines it...

    (Kind of like the word "overnight" 😛 )

    Most people outside of BSA know bouldering as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouldering

    But BSA imposes some pretty stringent restrictions on the activity.  (No more than 6', or no more than shoulder height, without belay, depending on where you are reading.  Again, unclear guidance... imagine that.)

    https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/cope/climb-on-safely/

    In one place, this restriction applies: "Everyone must be belayed or tethered when within 8 feet of an edge where a fall of more than 6 feet could occur."

    In another ( https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/430-500_BelayOn_WB.pdf , this one:  ".Other walls are horizontal rather than vertical, providing climbers with opportunities to practice traverses and bouldering moves while ascending no more than six feet above the ground."

    In another: "The key to safe bouldering is for climbers to keep their feet fairly close to the ground, never ascending higher than their shoulder height above the ground."

    In another: "Anyone engaged in bouldering must be protected by spotters. In addition to spotters, mats or pads should be placed at the base of indoor climbing walls to protect boulderers. Instructors and participants who climb higher than shoulder height above the ground must have a belay to protect them in case they fall."

    So, if you apply the most restrictive guidance, no one (from Lions to adults) can go over their own shoulder height without belay.

    The least restrictive guidance is no higher than 6 feet without belay.

    And tree climbing is prohibited. (LOL)

    "Extreme or action sports and associated activities that involve an unusually high degree of risk and often involve speed, height, a high level of exertion, and specialized gear or equipment. These activities include but are not limited to:

    Tree climbing"

    Q. Why can’t we climb trees?

    A. Falls are a leading cause of injury to members of our Scouting family and one of the top five claims against the general liability insurance program. Technical tree-climbing has been prohibited for more than a decade, due primarily to not being able to safely belay participants. Tree climbing has no belay; thus, it is prohibited. This is mainly a clarification rather than a new prohibition.

    Can you imagine being a kid and being told you cannot climb a tree? 

    https://www.fatherly.com/entertainment/how-to-climb-tree-kids-instructions-stay-safe

    BTW... I let Scouts climb trees if their parent is present, they give permission, and I have another adult witness.  I also tell the parent that BSA prohibits the activity, I do not assume any responsibility or risk, and that insurance will not cover a fall.  They assume the risk. 😜

     

    What is Assumption of Risk?

    The doctrine of assumption of risk is an affirmative defense that may be available to some defendants in personal injury lawsuits. The law has determined that certain activities come with an innate risk, and plaintiffs who voluntarily participate in these activities and become injured as a result cannot sue based on a negligence theory. In other words, the defense holds that people who choose to do certain dangerous activities can't turn around and hold others liable when they're injured as a result of those activities, especially if they knew of the risk of harm and assumed the risk by doing the activity anyway.

    In order for a defendant to invoke the assumption of the risk defense, the plaintiff must have:

    • Known that there was a risk of the same sort of injury that the plaintiff actually suffered, and
    • Voluntarily took on that danger (assumed the risk) in participating in the activity.

    Assumption of risk can either be an express assumption of risk or an implied assumption of risk. An express assumption of risk is often made in writing, usually in the form of a written agreement such as a signed waiver or contract. However, an express assumption of the risk doesn't have to be in writing, as it can also be made verbally.

    An implied assumption of risk, on the other hand, is not written or stated out loud. Rather, a plaintiff acted in a way that reflected an understanding of the risk and a willingness to take part anyway. An example of an implied assumption of the risk is if an amusement park patron stood and watched a roller coaster for several minutes before deciding to go on the ride. The patron's observation of the roller coaster suggests an understanding of the inherent risks and a decision to assume those risks by participating in the recreational activity.

  3. 6 minutes ago, MattR said:

    Sounds like a MB win to me.

    Another idea, at least one I could use, is a fireplace rake for separating coals from ash in a wood stove. It's a pole attached to a double sided rake. One side is a flat blade to push everything to the back of the stove and the other is like a regular rake to pull the coals forward out of the ash. So, a plate for one side and pieces of rebar welded to the plate to make the rake side, along with a pole sticking out perpendicular to that.

    No need for them in Texas but maybe Etsy.

    Maybe he could make me a "Shusher"!!!

    https://memes.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ef68ce5d-d1e8-4a8f-81a3-ba91a7391372

  4. 9 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

    This is what I mean by adults overthinking, over evaluating, over supervising and overregulating a whole great big organization.  Much of what is stated as fact are nothing more then someone's good idea that is not based on research.  Rather, it's based on emotion and theory.  The age old question of what forms a person; environment, social standing, education, early childhood development, nuclear family, diet, etc.  By the time a child reaches Scout age much of their persona has been formed.  With everything that they are exposed to and the pressure they feel as they try to establish their own identity, what's wrong with Scouting being a positive outlet that focuses on just having fun?  

    Because the idea that "Scouting is a positive outlet that focuses on just having fun" is too limited, and unappealing to two of the three (or four?) stakeholders in Scouting.

    Each of the three (or four) groups of stakeholders in Scouting has a different agenda.

    1.  Youth - want fun and adventure

    2.  Parents - want safety and personal growth for their children at a reasonable expenditure  (or some primarily want a resume bullet)

    3.  The CO/Community/Country - wants productive citizens

    (4. Volunteers - want to have a positive impact on lives and the future of our country... or maybe just some knots on a uniform 😜 )

    Scouting is a program designed to meet all three (four?) agendas.  So, if you want it to be successful, you have to address each.

     

     

  5. 4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    A few of the reasons why folks in my neck of the woods do not use them are 1) Council has a habit of losing paperwork, even hand-delivered paperwork, 2, they never received word if the fundraiser was approved or not, and 3) one SE did indeed demand 10%-15% of the profits for it to be approved. This is the same SE who yelled and cursed out district level volunteers, causing them to quit. As you can imagine, that did not go over well.

     

    Whenever we turn in the paperwork, we operate under the assumption that is is approved unless we hear otherwise.  We do not allow a lack of action on council's part to stop our efforts.

    Now, we do turn in the paperwork at least one month ahead of time, and we follow up with two weeks remaining.  That is ample opportunity for council to voice any concerns.

    And if anyone ever asked for a cut, we tell them they are more than welcome to work in the fundraiser with us, and have their percentage share from whatever they sell.  (That is, part of their fundraising goes to our unit 😜 )  

  6. 2 hours ago, cmd said:

    Thanks.  The charter org is pushing us to just make a google calendar to reserve the space, but it's hard enough getting the correct time on things in ONE calendar.  I guarantee we'll have things in the troop calendar at different times from what the room reservation calendar says and that when things get canceled or rescheduled they'll end up staying on the reservation calendar much longer than necessary.  Our units rely on the eBlast feature of our website to communicate upcoming events, so using JUST Google calendars seems like it would be unpopular. 

    If troop web host can help with that it would be amazing. 

    If each unit uses Scoutbook, you could subscribe to each units' calendar in one central Google calendar.  Therefore, no need to maintain or put items into the Google calendar.  Changes in Scoutbook automatically populate to the Google calendar (although this can be delayed a bit.)  You can look at the central Google calendar just to see conflicts.

     

    • Upvote 1
  7. 1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    The only rationale for this arbitrary rule is that the folks making it are under the impression that 'Cubs don't need to camp." Yep heard this from a member of the council camping committee a while back.

    I know one pack will now start having two overnight experiences when they do pack camping. One overnight experience will be from 5PM Friday to 12:00 Saturday, and a second overnight experience from 12PM Saturday to 11AM Sunday. Families can choose which overnight experience they want to attend, or if they want to do two over night experiences in a month.

    .

    To facilitate the change over, they must physically step foot out of the established campground.  So, a trip to the local gas station, convenience store, or even just stepping into the easement of the road would do it (not into the road of course... that would be more dangerous than the two back-to-back over-(meaning one)-nighters.

    Letter of the law!!

    In fact, maybe we could coin a new term...   OVERMONIGHTER  = over-meaning-one-nighter

     

    • Upvote 1
  8. 2 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    I am totally convinced if a Scout cooked a weenie on a coat hanger over a propane burner, all the cooking requirements would be signed off.  Its all really frustrating.  :)

    @5thGenTexan, I resolved long ago that I am only responsible for my actions, and no one else's.  You will always have liars, cheaters, and thieves out there.  Just stick to your principles (Scout Oath and Law) and model that for your Scouts.  And when you stray from them (as we will!!!), own it, admit it, make amends (if possible), ask forgiveness, and move on.

    You will have an effect, just as the liars, cheaters, and thieves will.

    • Like 1
  9. 2 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    Actually if you look up Webelos Overnighter in the Language of Scouting webpage, they changed to last week to say 1 night. Prior to that, it was one or two nights.

    Welcome to 1984.

    Current page (06 Mar 2023):

    https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/#

    ENTRY:  overnighter   A Cub Scout Pack organized one night campout held at a Council designated location. Also see “Webelos Scout overnighter.”

    ENTRY: Webelos Scout overnighter   A one night campout by Webelos Scouts and their parent or guardian.

     

    Cached on 23 Feb 2023

    http://web.archive.org/web/20230221012845/https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/

    ENTRY:  overnighter  See “Webelos Scout overnighter.”

    ENTRY:  Webelos Scout overnighter  A one- or two-night campout by Webelos Scouts and their parent or guardian.

     

    Yes, Orwellian @Eagle94-A1

     

    First site capture I can find: 05 Jun 2019

    http://web.archive.org/web/20190605234607/https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/

    NO ENTRY for "Overnighter"

    ENTRY: Webelos Scout overnighter  A one- or two-night campout by Webelos Scouts and their parent or guardian.

     

    There are 86 captures on the site from 05 Jun 2019 to today.  You can view them and see where the changes occurred yourself.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20190601000000*/https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/

    30 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

    More gaslighting.

    By @Eagle94-A1?? or by BSA??

  10. 1 minute ago, 5thGenTexan said:

    In our Troop I can not for the life of me figure out how a Scout can complete the cooking First Class requirements for instance.  We have no patrol structure and there is no planning for meals.  Typically there is an adult that picks what they are going to eat and picks its up the day before they leave on a campout, but there is no shortage of "fun" once they arrive at camp.  By "fun", I mean absolutely no structure during the weekend and just running in the woods.  Same thing at meetings.  We have a playground near our meeting place and it serves as a "babysitter" DURING meetings sometimes because its "fun" for the boys.  Recently, I had an adult who is serving as ASM explain to me that the Scouts planning meetings in a PLC is not really fun and what they like to do, so they shouldnt really have to do that.

     

    From my personal experience lately, I am about fed up with "fun".  Around here it means the adults are lazy and don't want to do their job.

    Yes, sounds like you have a Cub Scout camping club, not Scouting.

    Until the adults get on board, it's not gonna happen.

    And, unfortunately, it takes an adult driving the train initially to get the youth to do Scouting.  Because, most kids are inherently lazy stemming from incompetence and fear of failure, they are unwilling to do the work.  So they need to be led or pushed at the start.

    Adults also need to set expectations and task early on... 

    "Want to go camping?  Well, you need to make a menu... anyone???  No??  OK, then we aren't going camping."

    OR...  "Yes, you Jimmy?? OK, do you want to do it for rank advancement.  No??  OK, fine... let's go camping!!!"

    OR...  "Yes, you Jimmy?? OK, do you want to do it for rank advancement??  Yes??  Great!  Let's look at the rank requirements and talk about what you need to do to meet them.  Then, let's go camping!!"  [guide the Scout to... "Tell how the menu includes the foods from MyPlate or the current USDA nutritional model and how it meets nutritional needs for the planned activity or campout." and "...make a list showing a budget and the food amounts needed to feed three or more youth. Secure the ingredients."]

    Make sure it is an OFFER of OPPORTUNITY for advancement, not a demand.

    My favorite question from parents, "Why isn't my Scout advancing?"  Answer: "Because he doesn't want to."  or "Because he hasn't done the requirements to advance."

  11. 6 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

    The way insurance policies often work, however, is there would likely need to be a substantive reason why the lack of a fundraising application was reasonably causative to the claim for denial. i.e., if your troop is selling meat sticks from company A, but didn't file a fundraising application, and had a claim related to the event, it would be very difficult to deny a claim if the Council would have otherwise approved the application, and even more difficult to deny if they had other troops that had approved applications for selling the same product in a similar way.

    The fundamental flaw to this approach is it just sets up opportunities for units to ignore the rules. This is analogous to the old requirement for approved trip plans. It was ridiculous, and put an undue burden on both units and the council, just setting up for people to ignore the rules (which clearly happens all the time with fundraising). BSA needs to get on board with simplifying the volunteer experience, ASAP.

    The number one reason we have trouble recruiting adults is the unreasonable time commitments and procedural blockades put on volunteers who want to help, but have trouble figuring out what they need to do, and overwhelmed by the requirements when they learn them. In California, in order for the parent of a new scout to join us on an outing where they have to be a registered scouter, they have to commit to 6 hours of training plus fingerprint background check. BSA registration plus fingerprinting is a minimum of $92.  

    Every year the program grows more complicated. It has become a full-on bureaucracy, which it's primary mission to justify it's own existence. It doesn't need to be this way, but BSA's own hiring practices lead to this end, because the focus on internal hiring prevents bringing in new ideas and experiences. People who only "know" the bureaucracy don't grasp the effect it has on those outside it's walls.

    Here's another fine example: The BSA Safe Project Tool Use rules. The guide includes this statement:

    So, the document grid says that Cubs can't use handsaws, yet we teach them how to use hand saws in Baloo the Builder. Why would we teach them a skill and then not let them use it? Does anyone at BSA actually understand their own program??  That is not the only inconsistency. Again, when you make rules that are internally inconsistent, people will feel much more comfortable breaking the rules. Part of my job for over 25 years has been safety supervision, and rule number one for safety rules is to not provide motivations for ignoring the rules. 

     

    LikeLikeLikeLikeLikeLikeLikeLikeLike

  12. To answer your question @Eagle94-A1

    No, haven't heard of this.  But, doing a fundraiser without your council's approval does put the unit's insurance coverage in jeopardy, potentially.

    Note the boldface at the bottom of the application that @RichardB linked to:

    "The local council is responsible for upholding the Charter and By-laws and the Rules and Regulations of the BSA. To ensure compliance, all unit fund-raisers MUST OBTAIN WRITTEN APPROVAL from the local council NO LESS THAN 14 DAYS before the fund-raising activity"

    Now, the primary reason for the council approval is your point B:  they want to make sure you aren't dipping into their honey pot.  Of course, they'll never admit this.

    The secondary reason is to make sure you are doing an activity that is consistent with all BSA policies.  Prohibited sales would include things like lottery tickets, fireworks (with live demos),  Howitzer cannons (with even better live demos), Girl Scout cookies ( 😜 ), etc, etc, etc.

    The tertiary reason is to alert council of the fundraiser, and to give them the opportunity to speak with adult leaders about it, if there are any concerns, such as the unit's Scouts soliciting people for donations (verboten)...

    Never heard any voiced concerns over interfering in a United Way campaign.  But the application does mention this "Does the fund-raising activity avoid competition with other units, your chartered organization, your local council, and the United Way?"  I have had discussions with council over concerns with interfering with other units conducting a fundraiser at the same time.

    More blather on this at:

    https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/02/02/unit-fundraising-dos-and-donts/

  13. No, there is no "Needs Approval" alert.

    This is a good thing.

    When a Scout enters something complete on Scoutbook, then the Scout needs to contact an adult to work on getting tested to have something approved.  This keeps the monkey on the Scout's back.

    When a Scout marks something as complete, it is for their own tracking, and it should, in no way, create a "demand signal" for adult leaders.

  14. 1 minute ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

    I see a few of those freeze-dried meals that might be worth a try... After all, if kids have run around enough to be hungry they might be more willing to try new things. Last I heard quinoa was boring, but being outside can shake things up. Thanks for the tip. I was wondering if I'd have to dry my own ingredients to make my own dried meals 🤔

    That patrol soup looks great! I think the recipe is too big for our Trangia kitchen, but the pack has some big cast-iron pots ☺️

    Just cut it in half/thirds/ etc, and try it at home first.  Our family loves this soup!!

    Eat with a GIANT hunk of bread 😛

     

×
×
  • Create New...