Navybone

Well, I guess you have my number and are the acknowledged expect on all things scouting. I like how you attempt to blame me for bringing personal attacks. Back to my first statement, we agree to disagree. You decided to make ad hominem bards at me. I’ll pass. There is no value, it adds nothing to the conversation, in fact they stop any conversation. Well done.

terms you use to refute the value of the MB are "feel good requirement" and " no challenge." The mission of Scouting America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Its vision to make people good citizens. Understanding people makes them good citizens. It does not need to be hard, but knowing how it see others from thier point of view is a mature and effective tool to be a good citizen. You think there are no answers to the terms and that they can make you Racist. There are definitions. They are in the training that the MB Counselors have to take: Key definitions included in the materials: Identities: Traits that make up who a person is, including race, gender, age, religion, and ability. Diversity: The presence of a wide range of individual identities. Equality: The state of having equal status, rights, and opportunities. Equity: Providing resources tailored to individuals to ensure fair access to opportunities. Inclusion: Active efforts to create a sense of belonging and participation for all individuals. Discrimination: The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people. If a scout does not understand them, then we talk about them. Maybe you can explain now they are racist.

I can read this two ways. The first is one where you are both condescending and dismissive. It is at best patronizing. It tries to shut down any conversation by dismissing my comments, implying I do not know what I am talking about and pretty much "shut up and color. Yet you include: ""A Scout is courteous. A Scout is polite to people of all ages and positions. He understands that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along. Being courteous shows that you are aware of the feelings of others. ..." "A Scout is kind. A Scout treats others as he wants to be treated. He knows there is strength in being gentle. He does not harm or kill any living thing without good reason. Kindness is a sign of true strength. To be kind, you must look beyond yourself, and try to understand the needs of others. Take time to listen to people and imagine being in their place. Extending kindness to those around you and having compassion for all people is a powerful agent of change to a more peaceful world." Should I write a response in the same manner that you did. Should I imply that you know nothing about scouting and then sign of with a similar line - like "get on board or leave?" You make a great case that Scouting America does not need a merit badge that discusses empathy, how to work with other, see things from their point of view, and how to understand what you see (or read) is not the whole story.

What requirements in the Cit Society MB did you have issue with, do you think were against the ideals and goals of Scouting America?

We have to agree to disagree because I agree with little of your statement. But this part confuses me the most - empathy is not part of the Scout Oath or Scout law. Putting ones self in the position of another to understand theater point of view is an examlpe of a mature and well reasoned leader and individual. No where else is that in what is required in scouting. Nor is tolerance in the Scout Oath or Law. Tolerance for the fact not everyone see things the same way, based on their background, education, or opportunities. Sorry, but the Pentagon has no business in what is required for Eagle scout. none.

Because of the military support, I was able to be a cub scout when I loved in Portugal. It was the same for my son when we lived in Germany. I think that having a connection with the military is of great value for Scouting and for the military. My son is an Eagle Scout and has been selected for a 4-year NROTC Scholarship next year when he starts college. Although I left scouting as a Boy Scout because of the troop when I moved to Mississippi - the troop was less about camping and more about uniform inspections and being in Ranks. I was not looking for a military experience (although I retired form the Navy after 30 years in 2021). So, I can understand why Scouting America made the decisions it did - Cit Society has been sacrificed for bigger, more important priorities to the program. But as the Cit Society MB counselor in my troop, I am concerned that there will be a cost. After two years teaching the Merit Badge, I learned from the scouts as we talk about the requirements. The scouts never had issue with them, only the parents. The scouts did not understand what the issue was - which really makes confident in the future generations. I disagree the argument that there is no value since elements have always been there. Can we use the same argument to get rid of cooking since it is in every advancement requirement to First Class and in Camping MB? Same with First Aid? Since that argument does not work, what is the actual pushback on the Merit Badge?

I agree with so much of what you are saying. They have forgotten the Scout Laws points of being courteous, kind, and friendly. Maybe they think the blasting of scouts on social media is "brave." But the honest fact is that there are still many who refuse to accept change. They are almost always adults and think that the old way was the best way. You also see it in conversations about Cit in Society, that the undefined evils of "DEI" have changed the program and is no longer worthwhile. I totally disagree with that assessment. My son earned Eagle Scout in a combined unit. We never had issues with the scouts in a mixed gender troop. Any issue we had with by parents with preconceived ideas, none of which ever proved true. I was in the Navy before female were on ships and then afterward. I heard all the same reasons why it was going to bring the Navy down. It did not, and some of the finest sailors and leaders I know are female. A mixed troop (family troop - not a big fan of that title, but can live with it) is right for out troop and our community. No one is denied the opportunity to learn all the great lessons that scouting provides because of their sex.

How so? What actual Scouting value violates DoD values?

Fantastic. I just hope that the stand down does improve safety in all range operations

I agree with your concern, especially if there is the mentality of zero risk. But I applaud BSA instituting a safety stand down when someone is hurt on a range (archery or rifle/shotgun). The stand down is a good opportunity to learn about what occurred at the Summit, and ensue that everyone has the right procedures and training in place. The best defense against any effort to reduce range activities is demonstrating mature processes that are not afraid to be self critical and truly place safety first. A stand down like this is a best practice among many professional organizations (police, military, etc) for a reason.

Fair, just as it is up to the PLC to determine how much they want to scouts to be in the full uniform, to include socks. So, based on this line of thinking, if the PLC supports scouts wearing these socks, there should be no issue. And if the PLC is less strict on wearing the uniform, then there should not be much chasing the uniform method. And I also agree, when the adults get too involved in aspects of the troop operations, such as stressing the uniform method, then yes, it is an impediment.

I know that there is a uniform inspection guide. In my role as a leader in the troop I support, we have never used this. I offer hints to scouts on how to make their uniform look better, to meet the regulations and be more “uniform” with the rest of the troop. It is a method to meet the goals of scouting, but not the only method and not the purpose of scouting. And as I said it was an impediment in its implementation that resulted in my quitting scouts. This was my second troop, the first being one were we camped, we learned, we ran, had fun, we were active and had high retention. We wore the uniform but it was not about the uniform. My family moved to Mississippi and it was uniform inspections (with some type of uniform inspection sheet), standing in ranks. Nope, hard pass. There was no pride and sense of belonging. It was long pants (cotton olive green pants).

They are socks. To put this all into perspective - they are socks and this is not the military. When I was a scout in Mississippi in the early 80’s, we went to summer camp (Camp Tiak) The expectation was to wear the uniform every day. Since I did not have the right socks (actually just missing the red tabs that were to be worn with the socks, I had to wear long pants. Not fun in 100 degree weather. The emphasis in the troop was on uniforms (and inspections with grip chits) - which was a main reason I left scouts - I hated it. I am an ASM now, and my son recently completed all the requirements for Eagle. And after 30 years in the military, my emphasis has never been on uniform other than 1) wear it appropriately, and 2) wear what you have. Perspective. What is important in scouts? Let’s make the main thing be the main thing and use common sense on implementing the methods. My two cents.

But what is stopping adults from doing that now, getting together with adults with similar interests and working on the same skills?

Just scouts being scouts!

I don’t get it. This was all hashed out in May/June, what has changed? This is not about excluding for the sake of excluding. It is about offering some focused targeted to increase recruitment or retention to smaller minority groups. There is nothing devious about most of these meetings. It is all about creating a welcome environment where minority groups might now have felt welcome or accepted. It’s about having a meeting to show why Scouts is for them and thier children, and then have them join the larger Scout population. )

But that is not all scouting is. Its mission is: "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." Going back in time, the mission of Boy Scouts has not just been about outdoors, that is the method. It has been about developing young men (and now women) into resilient and useful members of society. Previous mission/purpose statements From Wikipedia (just did a quick search): 1910: "to teach [boys] patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred values. 1937: "Each generation as it comes to maturity has no more important duty than that of teaching high ideals and proper behavior to the generation which follows. From the Congressional Charter: § 30902. Purposes The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

If you read the comments on the facebook site, the council did offer a boys-only version, but there was not enough interest. If true, then there is no issue here, huh?

Yes, let’s try to have minority in scouting try to improve its membership. This is about how to increase female membership. Do you have a role in that? If you do, I am sure they would include you.

From where we are, many kids drop travel sports (which consumes weekends) when they reach high school. They transition to high school teams which play during the week. The sports conflict is then usually limited to practices conflicting with troop meetings.

Great question. Not sure, but a good head scratcher. Retention? If you assume you have a good program, scouts stay? Otherwise they vote with their feet?

T Scouts is outdoors and the whole “Cotton Kills” thing

Haters gonna hate. It’s hard to toe a hard line as BSA risks losing those who disagree. Not meant as an excuse, just a reality. Important thing is that BSA stays on track and does not waiver. Change takes time, and it will get there. Keep advocating.

100% agree. It is inappropriate to remove the US Flag to add the flag of another county. How does he reconcile that with the citizenship aspect of scouting?

The OP provided evidence that there were affinity group meetings at NOAC (5 March) He did not specifically state why they were detrimental other than they exist. He never states exactly why. He then provided examples at a national level that had no actual connection or identified applicability to BSA. His apprehension on a white male affinity group is his perception - or did someone tell him he cannot form one?