Navybone

I would disagree that it is a made up woke term. I have heard it over the last decade plus while int he military to stop/reduce Blue on Blue sexual assaults (committed on sailors by other sailors): do not be a bystander - see something, say something, do something. What is woke about that?

RIGHT - "An affinity group, while potentially helpful could perpetuate the same colorist and euro-centric bias that exists by making those problematic views a necessary status quo in the fight against white supremacy." The important part is that the article does not say all affinity groups cause these issues. I gave you an example of one where membership was voluntary, where is a view where it is not. To bring this back to scouting and not just about how all affinity groups are evil, how are they used in the BSA? Is there any actual evidence that they are operating like the article?

The OP’s question was “So, can anyone explain to me the difference between these groups and how having segregated events develops the concept of DEI among Scouts?” when he sates his opinion that a lot people see woke and DEI as not beneficial. And that special events for minority groups versus majority (white males) in scouts is counter to DEI in BSA. That is what I gave a down arrow to. My response was to ask “What do you disagree with in the Cit in Society MB? Not talking about the political BS, "woke" or rest of it. What part of the requirements of the MB do you disagree with? My experience in our troop is that the scouts don't have issue with it (so far as it is not an active MB - camping, etc...). “ There was no response. I specifically asked about Cit in Society MB because this is a forum about scouting and I was trying to keep the issue on scouting. Cit in Society MB is how the BSA is addressing developing a mindset of diversify, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in our youth. If there was acceptance of the principals of DEI as articulated in the MB, then the need for the affinity groups. The value of affinity groups is that they can be very effective in opening organizations to new minority groups. The provide people with similar background, experiences, and beliefs to see others that share the same beliefs. Having that commonality can be very helpful when entering an environment where they are one of a few. From my personal experience, I retired from military and went to work in higher education, but not as an academic. There was very little veteran presence in the college faculty and staff, and most thought all veterans suffered from PTSD and that we would run the place like boot camp. A veteran’s affinity group on campus was very helpful in assisting me to adapt and understand the college faculty, navigate around the school, and be very successful there. I did not need the group for long, but it was very useful at the beginning of my time there and was important to my staying there. This is no different than from scouting. These groups can be very effective in easing the entry of minority groups into scout. Things are hard enough for a new young man or women as they enter scouts without any of their friends. Or remain after their friends have dropped out. Or keep their parents involved.

That was in what 2000? Was that because of affinity groups or the recent BSA scouts DEI efforts. I seem to remember that was an entirely different issue.

I am not asking about random companies around the country, this is a forum on scouts and scouting. Let's focus on that. We should look at if BSA Scouts is excluding others, inhibiting opportunities for scouts or scouters.

I guess the question is if the affinity groups are causing others to be excluded. Is that occurring? Are the affinity groups resulting in other groups being denied advancement, opportunities, are there new standards that only the groups have to follow, but are stricter/more lenient with the group you associate with? IS that special treatment or recognition occurring?

Why do you say that? where is that happening? Are you saying that white males are being pushed out of scouting? Where?

Totally agree with you.

What has changed that makes anything in BSA unfair towards boys versus girls? What new restriction is in place? would it be different is a young man boy were to be abused and daddy and brothers found out?

What do you disagree with in the Cit in Society MB? NOt talking about the political BS, "woke" or rest of it. What part of the requirements of the MB do you disagree with? My experience in our troop is that the scouts don't have issue with it (so far as it is not an active MB - camping, etc...).

We probably do not qualify as a backpacking troop, but we alternate between car camping and backpacking (4-5 backpacking trips a year). Started this about 6 years ago, COVID delayed it a bit. The younger/new scouts tend to be apprehensive about backpacking, and parents about the cost. We start with shorter, smaller overnights, do hikes with packs, talk about what to pack often (and that the scouts need to pack their bag, not their parent). As the year goes, build up for longer trips, almost all the younger scouts love it and get excited. Over the summer, we do multi night trips in the area or a national forest in the area. This year a group is going to Philmont, first time in who knows how long (We lost out on another high adventure recently due to COVID). The annual cyclical aspect helps get the newer scouts up to speed, and provides older scouts the opportunity to step up and take leadership. You know you have it when you see the older scouts stepping in to help the younger scouts who are struggling. It is awesome to see. After a year or two, the scouts all have their owns stoves and water purifiers (issue becomes telling them all not to bring them). We try to pass down backpacks as the scouts grow taller. I am sure that other troops do more and longer, but this works for our troop of about 18. Not over the top where it scares people away, but not the eagle mill that the troop was 6 years ago where one of the challenges for the scouts was the nights camping for camping merit badge. We are not perfect, and the degree and success of the patrol method ebbs and flows based on the SPL. Most of the scouts are very active in other programs (sports, music, etc), so there is a balance, and this works for us. Good luck.

Wonder what the nationwide award rate is for scouts.

I have yet to find a scout that has an issue with this MB. Well, other than those who thought they were done and ready for eagle BOR when this came out Of the 10 scouts in out troop, they all through it was pretty good, better than cit community. to be honest, seems that more parents have issue with it than the scouts. And that bodes well - they seem not to carry the baggage the adults do. Speaks well for the future.

Does Bobby do anything with the troop - does he go on campouts, backpacking, etc? Is he disruptive when others work on advancement? We have a scout who is also not interested in advancement, but loves to go camping. We make him go through the actions (advancement) steps to appreciate in camps - Fireman chit, Tot'n chit, stove and cooking safety, setting up a tent, first aid, etc. Does not bring his book, does not participate in everything, but has to in those safety and overall camping safety items. He will not cook with others, only himself, but he has to follow all the same rules. We encourage him to advance since he is doing most of the work, but just wants to learn how to camp.

My two cents is that email, websites, or any method where the only medium is the written word, is not a great form of communication. Because so much of effective communication is non-verbal, it can be very difficult to understand any nuance. An example is that sarcasm is rarely effective in email or a site like this. What is the mood of the reader, what else is going on, what did they just read - all can impact how written communications is ready. In the example here, I totally agree that is could be received as unprofessional. But was it meant that way. btw, this is always a fun topic of conversation in the Communication MB.

Not quite sure how to take your comment. What do you mean taught properly?

Our troop has a few Scouts who will soon be turning 18. For various reasons, they have not progressed toward earning Eagle Scout, but have remained very active in the troop. They continue to be very active members of the troop, participating in camping, are excellent in working with younger scouts, giving them the benefit of what they have learned, etc. They are great Scouts, they represent the troop and BSA very well, and would have made excellent examples of what an Eagle Scout is and what they represent. To me, it would be a shame to simply have these Scouts disappear when they turn 18 without some level of recognition. They could have given up when earning Eagle was no longer an option, but they have not. They have held leadership positions (positions of responsibility) , they uphold the Scout Law and Oath, and they are respected by the adults and scouts in the troop. I am wondering if other troops have a way they recognize and publicly thank similar scouts in their troops when these Scouts reach the end of their time as Boy Scouts. And if there is already a thread on this, please let me know – I tried a number of search options with no luck.

That is an insane jump. How are they selling the monthly adventure fee - does it guarantee anything specific or a service?

Your thought is to get rid of Tiger and Lion?

Maybe more than a bit off topic?

I would think that the parents could argue that the Council, who owns the camp, did not provide sufficient oversight and control of their range if they allowed this to occur. At a minimum, call the council's overall management and the approval for use process into intense scrutiny.

Thanks for sharing this info. Very interesting approach to citizenship. You say it is mandatory to complete this award to process in UK Scouts?

So do we do the same with Personal Fitness? Kids have to take PE in school. How about swimming - kids have to know how to swim in our school district. If a scout takes a class like environmental science in school, should they go ahead and automatically earn merit badges that cover the same topic, Eagle required or not? There is no national standard for education. Scout provides a leveling for those who participate, giving them a significant jump on being successful adults. I would argue that the eagle-required MBs are inline with the mission of Boy Scouts and its identified methods.

I would not say that schools cover everything in the citizenship merit badges.

So, CIS, which focuses on developing an understanding of the people in the community, is less useful than learning how the community works for a common good? Are the concepts of understanding diversity, equity, and inclusion not all part of how to strengthen a community, or even a nation? How to include your ethics in decison making -Not useful? The four citizenship merit badges are all about the developing of our youth to be successful in their endeavors, to be leaders of this nation and the world.