yknot

I also have little faith in BSA's tech expertise. However, this is not as difficult as it seems. Almost every other youth organization uses one of these systems. It can't be that hard to adapt one of them. The systems that manage sports leagues are very similar for example. Instead of troops and patrols, you've got leagues and teams; you've got rosters with contact information; waiver and health forms to fill out and file online; coach and volunteer positions; clinic and lesson sign ups similar to camp outs and conference requests; alerts and news update features; online payment options. How is any of that different from scouts?

If any help was coming from Congress, it would have been here by now. I'm not sure what value anyone thinks that charter holds. I'd love to see Congress step in and buy scout camps en masse as a national initiative. In the summer they could serve as scout camps or dual community/scout camps; off season they could serve a host of other purposes that this recent crisis has identified. However, it won't happen.

I think a lot of us have followed that kind of strategy for years, however I have become increasingly concerned over the years and even more recently this year with liability issues. If you are not following scout policies and procedures it does raise some problematic possibilities. I have always carried a large umbrella policy but the judgments today are becoming astronomical. What I once considered large -- $2 million -- no longer gives me peace of mind.

This is not scout worthy. This will encourage scouts from higher transmission areas to attend camp in a low transmission area and at full capacity no less. It's one thing to try and find a way to get scouts on an HA trip that has been two years in the planning, especially if there are kids in the crew who will age out. To me it's another thing entirely if you are just talking about getting kids to routine summer camp. They'll live if they miss a summer. Do we really think we are that important that we need to risk importing kids from all over? And what happens if there is an outbreak at that facility? What if it spreads to the community?

I just received a communication today from one of our local councils and it is as clear as mud. I have no idea what they are saying they are doing.

Should we expect updates today from the HA bases? I thought I read that we'd get updates every two weeks -- 1st, 15th, 30th -- but that could have been wishful thinking or a hallucination on my part. Late edit: just saw Philmont posted something yesterday but I'm more interested in Sea Base

It's a valid concern, especially given our motto of Be Prepared, because based on what I've seen regarding HA and Summer Camp, we are not. Sea Base, for example, is expecting all participants to bring their own supply of hand sanitizer.

With all due respect, flu season runs through April and even early May in some years so that theory doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure what you are trying to say..

This is a nice story for scouting but on the other hand it highlights the concern that we don't have a real handle on this virus or know what it can do in kids: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/14/us/teenager-cardiac-arrest-coronavirus-illness-trnd/index.html Temperature checks, diagnostic tests, and antibody tests would have been useless in this scenario. There are now hundreds of cases of pediatric effects like this in Europe and the U.S. Possible infection is not being picked up until after an acute event, if at all, but there still seems to be a link. Communicable disease plans can't really manage this type of infection in a camp or group setting.

Yup, that's it. I haven't seen that format but it looks like an edited version of the draft content. The full document is more granular.

It's not clear when or if the draft CDC guidelines will be released. The draft I saw would certainly seem to preclude any residential scout camping in most areas of the country and would require major changes in traditional scout programming even in day camps. Hopefully we'll know more in a few days. I personally don't think regional or HA camps should be operating this summer. I think some version of highly local, unit run, small scale camps later in the summer are still possible depending on the region, local guidelines, and BSA policy. One of the things we really need more information about is whether the recent cases that have been reported in children are a rare anomaly or are the tip of an emerging syndrome.

Freeze dried meals would work great but they can be expensive and some sellers are out of stock. I just finished two weeks of self isolation and lived mostly on cardboard cups of rice, soup, oatmeal and pasta as well as clementines. If you can boil water, these are easy cheap meals and flatten out as well, and as light, as foil pouches for packing out as garbage. Clementines are durable, portable and can be eaten without touching edible portions with your hands if you have a knife.

I don't think the message we want to send to kids is that it's OK not to social distance if you are wearing a mas. Even with N95 respirators, that supposedly protect the wearer, the "95" part represents the percentage of pathogens they are able to filter out, so it is not definitive protection. It's a drag patrol buddies can't help with a tent but if you get to the point where you are able to safely hold a patrol camp out, other traditions will be created. Anyone seen the campfires in a can or had any issues with them? We've used them to create the feeling of a camp fire in the backyard. It could be a way to have individual socially distanced camp fires on an overnight if sites/BSA allow them.

There are also a lot of variables involved in peoples' living conditions. Staying at home in an urban neighborhood in NYC is not the same as staying at home in the suburbs.

Absolutely. I'm not talking about doing anything foolhardy. If camping activities are not safe in your council or area, then we need to follow that lead. But for many of us in areas with few and declining new cases, an in town patrol or unit camp out this summer might be within the realm of possibility. Certainly family camping will be feasible for some. I just don't buy that the only way to get kids outside this summer is to send them to a high risk summer scout camp. There are plenty of other options, and in a worst case scenario, we will do a lot of day hiking and outings this summer with the family.

There's no problem with going camping. I think we're all working on that and expecting to be able to do it fairly soon. It's pretty manageable locally in small patrol or unit groups with smart people and good protocols in place. It's traditional summer camp and regional activities that are the issue. CDC draft guidelines advise local geographic area camps only. None of the scout summer camps I know of around here are local.

Someone still has to hand them out multiple times a day. And then someone has to put a name on them so they don't pick up someone else's bottle if they put it down. The bottom line is it's kids and there are a dozen things like this that are going to be a problem. It's one thing if you are trying to guard against run of the mill stomach bugs or colds at camp. It's another if you're trying to avoid spreading a potentially fatal virus during a pandemic. If scout camps were on top of this, we should be seeing more proactive communications but in my area at least there has been nothing other than the same boiler plate precautions that seem pretty tepid.

Someone with clean hands is going to have to stand there and fill up the individual water bottles. You can't have a hundred hands touch that spigot and it would be a waste of hand sanitizer (that no one yet seems to have) to sanitize between each use. Plus, sanitizer is really not all that effective the way most people use it. You've got to glop it on and let it sit for a minute or two before touching anything.

As far as I know, there are no formal CDC guidelines yet issued for the opening of summer camps. There are draft recommendations that the CDC issued however that were intended to keep communities safe. They outline the following: - They seem to envision only day camps opening - Camps in earlier phases are limited to kids from the same local geographic area -- in the draft guidelines local appears to mean municipal - No mixing of kids or staff from high and low transmission areas - Enhanced social distancing measures in place - Large group facilities or activities closed or cancelled - Assumes that camp has adequate safety materials inventory (hand sanitizer, disinfectants, masks, gloves, etc.) - Campers stay in the same group throughout the day, ideally with the same staff I have not seen council camps adopting these measures. As far as I've seen, no one is monitoring what geographic area scouters are coming from or what their local transmission rates are. In our area, we have wildly divergent transmission rates by county and even by municipality. Camps have also not made it clear if units will remain in one group, nor have they made it clear how they will handle the adult leadership. To follow the intent of these guidelines, the same parents would need to stay the week but at least in our unit it doesn't work that way -- parents take shifts. To me it seems pretty clear that most camps should not be operating or, if they are, operating in a completely different format than traditional scout summer camp. I think in the next couple weeks, more and more camps will have to cancel simply because the numbers keep going up. Even if you are not a high risk family yourself, it would seem un scoutlike to attend camp and risk bringing back more cases to your own locality. I also think it's not scout worthy to keep reading how at risk scouts will need to stay home. We don't do activities that scouts with diabetes, asthma, food allergies, physical disabilities, etc., can't do because that would not be inclusive. Yet we're willing to leave a large segment of our kids behind because they live with grandma or have some underlying health condition. That doesn't sit well with me. Summer camp isn't a high adventure trip that requires specific skills or training -- it's meant to be a unit activity.

Our state and our district are considering online summer enrichment classes in June and July.

It would be great to have a credit card platform that each council/troop could use for fundraising. Popcorn has to go. People want something useful.

In most areas, you can't get disinfecting sprays, wipes, or sanitizers except for random shipments. Media reports say the shortages are caused by demand as well as the unavailability of key ingredients that come from overseas. As businesses ramp up in parts of the country over the next couple weeks, demand will only increase. Shortages are supposed to last at least through July. I'd want to know that a camp has inventory on hand.

Undoubtedly, and I understand that, but I think it's a choice between having kids and adult leaders come home healthy or not. Traditional camp structure and activities are going to have to be adjusted this summer. You had mentioned doing your own camp and I think anyone considering this option as a back up is also mulling these kinds of strategies.

I just don't see how camps and especially HA will be able to run this year. The only things that work right now are social distancing, masks, and hygiene. Temperature checks are really not that useful because a significant percentage of people do not ever develop fevers or only do so long after they have already been contagious. The symptoms we are learning are also increasingly variable far beyond a cough, fever, or sore throat. The CDC recently expanded the symptom list, but it still does not include GI symptoms which appear in many cases. Other nonspecific symptoms include skin rashes, pink eye, and neurologic signs. I am really not sure how a camp health officer will be able to do surveillance on all that and how you would be able to tell a case of routine stomach bug from a possible Covid symptom. If I were running camps, I would try to preserve the main point of summer camp -- getting kids camping outside -- by forgoing some of the other traditional camp aspects. I would have troops forget about splitting up for merit badges, etc., and instead have them experience a shortened camp week if necessary in troop pods. Troops can hike together, boat together, shoot together, etc., assisted by staff with sanitizing between each group. I would cut the census by giving each Troop a half week. Meals would be delivered to the camp site by staff to avoid dining hall issues. Easy enough to set up a camp site fly to have a meal space for each local troop pod. I think to have any semblance of safety this summer you have to change the way you view the camp experience.

In our multi state region, many camps have already cancelled for the summer. I think it's going to be a very regional decision. I would also say that if anything has become obvious about this virus over the past three or so months, it is that we really don't know much about it or how it behaves. It's far more contagious than initially thought, spread possibly even while simply speaking, and its symptoms are far more varied. Temperature checks are a helpful but not really effective screen because the data is showing many infected people don't present with fever. In a large percentage of cases, for example, it presents as GI issues. The point of this is that it is going to be very hard to manage, especially as parts of the country attempt to come back online. Even if camps attempt to open, I expect we'll see a lot of them have to close back down. I personally won't be sending my kids outside of their social cohort this summer. If they camp, they will camp local with the same kids who they will also hopefully be seeing in school this fall. There are plenty of local options. Not as exciting maybe, but child care can be achieved.