yknot

It's the Outdoors mission for me. Outdoors is neutral territory no matter what your politics. There is a huge groundswell of interest among young kids today in the environment, but a lot of them don't know the first thing about it or have access to it. Why are we not capitalizing on this? Our program -- the ranks and the merit badges -- need an overhaul to get rid of the school and homework type drivel and to emphasize more outdoors related activities. There is so much that scouting does not get into or go very deep with, from wildlife biology to weather to water resources. People mock STEM s

I just want to clarify that I follow YPT religiously when I am in a scouting environment. What I am talking about is when my son is outside of the scouting environment and wants me to take him and a couple friends to a movie. Or if a couple friends want to come over and have a nerf war.

If you read his "bio", the character was a cub scout and his den mother taught him to "be prepared".

I follow YPT as closely as I can but I realize some of it is to cover BSA's neck. Sometimes you have to use commonsense or your child wouldn't be able to have a social life.

I would agree. I think they've got their own problems that they are trying to address by distancing themselves from BSA.

I don't think we should engage in any fights over which organization is more "safe" for youth. Leader and adult use and abuse of alcohol have been issues at plenty of BSA activities too. While it's all inappropriate, there are those who could argue relative safety. I don't want to go there, and I think it's beneath us anyway. I can't account for what Girl Scouts says. Good PR for us will be local. BSA has pretty much boxed itself into a corner. Putting a light on what our kids are out there doing every week is something we actually can do at the grass roots level. It's helpful to remembe

Eagle 1993, I completely agree with the idea to sell artwork before camps. Artwork sold to a collector or museum isn't lost; it will be cared for and cherished and there is nothing to prevent a future exhibition of loaned paintings being brought back together. Camp properties sold, on the other hand, will likely be developed and forever lost.

I have no inside information and am not an insider, but based on what I heard through our council it made sense for our council to join the petition and that a significant number of councils have also done so. Would be interested to know what others have heard.

I agree. This exercise is interesting but it is more academic than practical. Reality, post filing, is probably going to be something we can't much envision or have much influence over. Council mergers are not going to be happening while the bankruptcy case is proceeding in all likelihood. I think it's good to try to frame out possible desired scenarios, but the reality is we are facing a new world order and we'll probably have to adapt as we go.

My understanding is that Councils can sign on to be part of the National bankruptcy filing and thus obtain some degree of protection however then any unencumbered assets could be at risk. My understanding is that many did so.

The proposal needs more work but the basic idea is good. Just to advocate for this poor scout who is unknowingly getting his proposal vetted by some scouters who are probably pretty intimidating in their collective expertise, he does state that all wood is already on site so he has at least thought about that aspect even if he didn't articulate why that's a concern. He also states that he is using 3 foot long logs not 12 foot. He absolutely should outline his work plan but I dug plenty of post holes as a kid so I"m not sure that aspect is far fetched. I've also helped build structures like thi

This is a great idea and with a little more context, such as including an educational component, it could be a great project. Insect biomass is plummeting. There is a valid conservation message in a project like this and if some education were provided about what it is, why it's needed, and how it could be replicated on a smaller scale elsewhere, it could be a really cool feature of a local park.

There is a certain amount of "local" logic in having regional high adventure or destination bases in the southwest, upper midwest, south, and now mid Atlantic, so I don't hate the idea of Summit either, but I think it's implementation has not been well managed. The loss of council camp properties has been an ongoing crisis BSA has ignored. It speaks to the lack of outside expertise because support easily could have been offered through property management expertise and advice, bench marked program adjustments, or collective purchasing agreements. Facility upgrades are a common challenge a

Being in an area where there are multiple councils and camps, the most successful ones are the most innovative and the most flexible and that least resemble the traditional week long scout residence camp. Allowing provisional scouts as well as non scout siblings and friends to attend; having weeks or specialty tracks that focus on STEM , Shooting, etc.; a day camp option for older scouts who are in summer travel sports and need to be home for weeknight games; two and three day camping options; family camping nights; programming that extends throughout the year; discounts for multi week attenda

The bigger issue is that if it is a Council that is involved in a possible case, the bankruptcy judge may have some ability to go back and review such efforts to hide or preserve assets. Similar to what happens during a medicaid review with an elderly relative who might have tried to gift assets to family members too close to claiming eligibility.

I worked on tort reform as a national public policy issue some years ago. Nothing happened then, nothing has improved since. It's only gotten worse. In parts of Europe and Canada, the legal liability system works differently and organizations like scouting don't have the same kinds of issues and challenges that we have here. We would have to change our system and also our cultural outlook. Americans like to sue. It's why I have always carried a very large personal umbrella policy. I don't like a lot of the changes National has made over the years, but I can understand why some of them happened

In trying to visualize a more decentralized future for scouting, one of the things that keeps stopping me is liability insurance. Even if we are no longer BSA, if we are anything scout like, I wonder how we are going to be able to obtain affordable insurance. The liability insurance crisis isn't limited to scouts. In every sector I work or volunteer in, everyone is trying to avoid or reassign risk. You can't stand in front of a supermarket, use school or town facilities, or do just about anything else without a COI. Any insurance experts out there with thoughts?

I kind of like that more informal approach. Our CO always has a service, but it's the exact time as our own church's service. We usually opt to go to our own, which is very low key and basically wear your uniform, stand up and say something short, and be friendly. I also have to say, I am not a fan of the BSA's enthusiasm for turning everything into a ceremonial event. A flag ceremony with meaning? Great. An Eagle COH? Great. AOL Crossover? Great. The rest of it on a near weekly or monthly basis just feels like a poor use of time and diminishes the gravity and impact.

The patrol method works in troops where the behind the scenes adult leadership is good. If it is, the scouts learn how to lead and manage their affairs through osmosis and observation of good leaders without a lot of direct influence. If that background doesn't exist, however, the patrol method doesn't work as well. If leaders aren't organized, planning ahead, or resolving interpersonal issues well among themselves, then the scouts will have a harder time figuring those things out because they have no one to learn from. The patrol method isn't an absence of adult leadership or mentoring but t

Very interesting. Thanks. I agree that outrage over anachronistic behavior is misplaced but I do think the wearing of Native American regalia and other such activities needs to be retired from the program.

There is so much to unpack here it is hard to keep up. Council liability question: The prevailing view seems to think Councils that do not have abuse cases are likely "safe" from litigation. However, many of these cases happened years ago, and so many councils have been merged or moved around, how does anyone know what the liability trail is and if you are "safe"? Frozen payments: If Chapter 11 puts a lid on court cases and insurance pay outs for abuse cases, what happens to run of the mill claims for things like injuries, negligence, etc.? Our insurers seem rather cranky. I

Sad day

Those are a kid favorite however hard to do with a group since you have to have a lot of them. Better for a den or patrol camp out. We've got about six between our various families and they are fun to pull out for smaller groups. You can do anything in them. Spray Pam is the easiest way to use along with some butter. Lots of pam, egg, sausage, and cheese and even that gluten free scout is happy.

@Cburkhardt On this President's Day weekend, thank you for framing and initiating these different conversations about our hoped for better future. I am grateful for all the voices on this board and that we are all able to come together and have these varied and thoughtful discussions.

Hey, thanks. Yes, I think we are probably going to remain toxic for the next few years. But, if we survive, I hope we can pursue some innovative strategic partnerships that could do some great things, especially for the outdoor program. Scouts has to want to still be an outdoor program though.