FireStone

I'm always up for some nostalgia, the box of scouting memorabilia on the shelf behind me of my days on the trail as a youth always takes me back just from thumbing through the patches and remembering where or how I earned them. But you lost me at the quoted part above. I fail to see how we've taken this hard turn, that scouting is somehow so different now. I had my Webelos den out for a little 4-mile walk in the woods a couple of weeks ago, along the way talking about the Outdoor Code (which to my surprise some of the scouts had already memorized perfectly) and some plans for working on adventure pins and a Nova award over the upcoming winter break. We're just finishing up Castaway, on the heels of one of my proudest moments as a DL where every scout in my den successfully started a flint and steel fire at our last den meeting. The kids don't even seem to care much about what pin they're getting, they just loved that they started a fire without a match or lighter. Scouting didn't take a hard turn anywhere. The handbook is still the handbook, it's full of ideas for adventures not unlike those of my past and yours, if we just follow it. The BSA isn't changing that. So what really changed? The only changes I see are to the membership policies, and those don't have any impact on what my den is doing. The trail they're on, it looks a whole lot like the trail I remember and sounds like the one mentioned above. We just had a Pack campfire (virtually) on Friday night, and we closed it out with some of those same lyrics from Scout Vespers. Again, I ask, what has really changed? This all feels very familiar and typical of scouting to me. If anything, I think the experience my den and pack is having is actually a richer and more rewarding experience than what I had.

I got that info from the Q&A section of the product page on the Scout Shop website. Someone asked "Who is the manufacturer of these hats?" and the reply was, "This hat is made by Stetson."

I know I'm a broken record with referring to the BPSA-US, but I truly believe they are the case study that proves that this is all possible. They have been doing exactly this, running a volunteer-led grassroots scouting program, getting some adults together to teach kids traditional scout skills, and doing it with some creativity in finding places to go and camps to use. It is entirely possible, maybe inevitable, certainly proven to be a workable model of scouting.

I've tried to maintain a similar opinion. We've got enough problems on our plates currently with just keeping even the basic parts of our programs going during a pandemic, all we can do face forward and keep going. And for me that means going through whatever comes of the BSA, regardless of whether it falls or not, and beyond into whatever form of scouting program we can maintain. We don't need much to get some kids together and go camping or take on a service project. We've seen groups like the BPSA-US do it with nothing more than a rough outline of a traditional scouting program and a desire to make it happen. Limited support from any kind of national HQ, no regional council, no paid professionals, just volunteers making it work. This thing will go on, with or without the BSA, with or without us. I believe enough in the scouting movement to trust that it will endure. It could live on as nothing more than a local group of kids who want to get together and go camping. But it will live on. That's enough for me to feel good about what we're doing, that no matter what happens at National, here on the ground we are and will continue to do scouting.

That's fine if it's not a summer hat, I'm really looking for a cooler weather hat anyway. I have a booney for the hot weather. Thanks all for the feedback. I have a planned trip to my local scout shop later in the week, going to see if they have one in stock.

Honestly right now, being a little overly-cautious is not a bad thing. Too many people are getting sick. We've got cases in my kids' school, other schools around town, a coworker has it, it's scary times. And believe me, I get the frustration. I want nothing more than to be doing in-person meetings with my Webelos but it's just not a good time for that. Have to make due the best we can. And that's what I'd tell scouts if I were in a troop. Virtual meetings aren't great, but make due. Get some meetings on the calendar, do something. Take the camera outside and do some outdoor virtual patrol activities. Knock out some of the non-outdoors stuff, work on a citizenship badge together, etc. And tell them to just remember that this is temporary, we will get through it. But we can't sit still just because virtual meetings are less than ideal. Challenge them to get creative. I understand the reluctance to do more of what some of them already do all day if their school is remote, but challenge them to harness all of this tech that they know better than us old guys/gals and find creative ways to work as a patrol. Or challenge them to go old-school. Work on Signs, Signals and Codes, and they have to text each other using only morse. 😄

The impact of COVID on membership really cannot be understated. Even in Packs like mine where we have tried to maintain an active outdoor program, we've taken a hit to membership (both previous and new) because of covid. Some parents even openly complained that we weren't delivering the outdoor group activities they had come to expect. We did the best we could but we had to dial things back a bit, and for some families that made scouting no longer living up to expectations. With new parents it was hard to sell the promise of adventure when we were hamstrung on how much outdoor adventure we could really do. While our new signups were less than half of what I'd expect in an average year. Really probably about 25% of what I'd ideally hope to see. How much of that added to the crisis or just acted on its own as a sort of crisis on top of another crisis, I'm not sure. But I think we'll be discussing the covid effect for a long time, while trying to recover from it and hopefully build back new membership next year.

Anyone have the BSA Brimmed Hat (formerly the Expedition Hat)? https://www.scoutshop.org/brimmed-hat-600016.html It's surprisingly cheap at $37.99 for a Stetson hat. Just wondering how the quality actually is, if it's durable, holds up over time, etc. Also, is it the moldable kind of felt/wool that you can shape with hot steam?

I get that. We all need the mental break. My reason for wanting to do something covid-related, though, is that I believe this will end at some point (if the science keeps showing encouraging results), and when my scouts look back on all of this I'd like them to remember that they did something to help.

I want to do a service project with my Webelos and preferrably do something that would benefit people/community in a way that addresses some covid-related problem. I'm racking my brain and not coming up with much. Anyone have any suggestions or have you done any covid-related projects with your Cub Scouts?

If the BSA folds, I'll charter a BPSA-US group and just keep on doing what I'm doing, getting my scouts together, learning fun outdoor skills, camping, etc. Doesn't matter all that much to me what the name of the organization on the uniform shirt is. Since a few months have gone by on this topic, @Liz I hope you had some success since then in getting your Webelos moving on those pins. I'm a Webelos DL and I know how hard covid has made it to do things that previously would have been fairly easy.

Not interested anymore. She and her dad kept pushing the BSA every step, nothing was ever good enough, no matter what the BSA did to try and make them happy. Her dad is quoted in that article singing the praises of the BSA, while on Twitter he's still yelling about discrimination. I'm over it. She's not "the first", there is no "first", that was entirely by design. I congratulate her on being among the inaugural class, but as far as I'm concerned she tarnished her achievement. All of that yelling and pushing the BSA to recognize her previous BoRs (she's had more than one), and in the end she had to play by their rules anyway. And still insists on changing the narrative and declaring herself "first". It's a shame.

I've been digging for an answer to a question and can't find it: What's the BSA's stance on multi-unit events/activities currently? For example 2 Packs, 1 or 2 Troops, 1 Crew getting together for an outdoor activity. I've been comfortable with den and pack meetings, but this one has me hesitating, bringing kids together from different units, both pack and troop level, different schools, and during a week when we've some positive covid tests in local schools.

Get rid of all of the badges for doing things that are part of other badges/belt loops. The entire "generic emblems" section on the scout shop website could be eliminated. My cubs don't need a police station visit badge, they get the belt loop that includes that as a requirement. They the generic hiking badge, they do Webelos Walkabout and get the pin for that. They have a parade badge, a flag ceremony badge, a campfire badge. Some stuff doesn't need a badge, it's just part of scouting and could very easily go un-badged. Also, stop making different stuff for every cub rank. One neckerchief, one belt buckle, if you want to distinguish rank with something visual, keep the rank hats, that's all. My Pack got our own custom neckerchiefs, scouts use one neckerchief all through cub scouts. We (leaders and parents) got tired of the new-rank-neckerchief-every-year madness.

For anyone familiar with Virtus, do you know if there is an online course option? The CO is saying we all have to take the course in-person.

Not my church, my CO, and they're asking all of our unit volunteers to sign it, which includes folks of other faiths. So I guess in this CO, if you're not Catholic, either you can't volunteer or you can and just have th sign the form without really meaning it.

The Declaration of Religious Principle is fairly broad, though, and not specific to any one faith. The document I'm being asked to sign speaks directly to Christian standards and the teachings of the Catholic church. To me that seems too specific for a BSA volunteer, with the BSA being non-sectarian.

Follow-up question: Can a CO require volunteers to sign a document that states that volunteers agree to exhibit Christian ethical standards and conduct themselves in a manner that is consistent with the discipline, norms, and teachings of the Cathollic Church? I'm struggling with this one and how it potentially impacts volunteers who follow other faiths. Or gay volunteers.

Thanks, folks. I had a feeling that was the case, just wanted to confirm.

Our CO is requiring us to attend a church-sponsored child protection program, in addition to BSA YPT. If we don't attend, we cannot be BSA adult volunteers. As a broad and general question, are COs allowed to do this?

The game we always have to play is ask for the goods, not the money, but then we can accept any money offered to buy the goods. It's all about how you say it. Or at least how you start the conversation. We can't ask for money but asking for the goods right away can be off-putting. The strategy that has worked for me has been to just put out the word that we're looking to get something and just seeing what people come back with, whether that's in the form of donated goods, funds, access to discounts, or any other assistance. When I needed to purchase things for a service project, I put out a community announcement about what we needed and the public came to me either with a donation of the actual items we needed or offering to help with funds to make the purchase. I didn't solicit money, I simply informed the local public about what we were trying to do and let the public help however they chose to. My Pack did stop me at the point of wanting to make an Amazon wishlist for items, they viewed that as solicitation. I'm not sure how exactly. We can ask people to buy popcorn to fund projects and activities, but I guess we can't ask people to buy stuff directly for those projects or activities? In the end we still got what we needed, technically without soliciting anything. It's just a silly game we have to play to get from point A to point B, even if the end result is the same as just asking for B from the start.

I would suggest just re-writing it if you can remember any of it. That's what I've been doing for various ceremonies and scripts. I just did the Webelos Tribe story at a den meeting, and I took what i found online and modified the heck out of it. A lot of this stuff was never official BSA programming, and was just written and/or edited by various scouters over the years. I use those documents as a starting point, but I re-write stuff as needed. Not just for cultural significance but also just to get the right kind of story, ceremony, or script for what I'm trying to do. I even edit campfire skits, songs, and stories. Not too much that it changes the story, just to personalize it or to get it into a flow or tone that I'm more comfortable with so it sounds more natural. Or to add local flare. When I do the Horrible Pirate story and the narrator says they were down by the docks, I say "down by the [Your Town] Docks" to give it a local reference (and as a bit of added comedy since because we have no bodies of water in or near our town). My point is, scripts in scouting don't need to be adhered to exactly. These aren't exactly sacred documents, they have already been edited and revised numerous times over the years. Take what you like, remove what you don't, add whatever makes it work better for you. Same for the face painting. Don't worry about how close it is to whatever your remember being done previously. Ultimately what you want with the face painting is a color that matches rank. Put a couple of bars of the rank color on each kid's face and you're good to go.

Have you bought your adult uniform yet? Might as well, it's just a matter of time if the Pack finds out you're an Eagle Scout, you'll find yourself "volunteered" for a uniformed position real soon. 😄 Welcome back!

As it relates to the scout in the news segment, we don't know that she did anything less than show leadership throughout the project. We don't know the logistics of the location, the required approvals, permits, organizational aspects required to get the work crews together, how she managed the project on-site, etc. We certainly don't know that it only took "a couple of hours". How much time was spent planning it, getting materials (donated or otherwise), etc. I understand there are issues with some projects and how they hold up in terms of the requisite leadership skills displayed during the project. But this project might not be one of them, and we can't judge the merit of the project based on what the final product is. There's a world of difference between a 2-hour bench and a 20-hour bench, and from the brief look we got at the one here, it's not the 2-hour variety. And still, once again on this forum, and topic veers off into an unfair criticism of a chosen path of advancement when really this topic should just be about congratulating a scout on her accomplishment and being happy that the BSA got some positive air time on national tv. Sorry for the rant, think I'm just reaching my lifetime limit on patience for criticism of scouts doing things by the book, advancing as fast or as slow as they want within the rules, earning Eagle at whatever age they want (again, within the rules), doing service projects of whatever size or scope they want within the rules, and then getting criticized for it by adults. Don't like the requirements? The rules? The service project approvals and process? The book? Change the book. The scouts don't deserve the criticism.

Holy moly... That is either a woefully uninformed parent who thinks the BSA is somehow connected to their public school system, or an informed but still incredibly ballsy parent to demand that a mostly volunteer-run organization provide that kind support for their child. I want to believe it's the former, but suspect it's the latter.