Jameson76

Agree on the incomplete. As a unit we take the Eagle applications to the office, (pre-EBOR) then hang around until completed. We review them prior and even so, there is sometimes a date that does not work out right. We correct it right there. If we weren't there, I can see that application being put aside, e-mails sent (maybe), etc etc and it getting buried

The sobering part may be all the units that have NOT begun working through the math. They got the note but are assuming it will be another $10 - $12 increase. Suppose you are a NEW unit, just bee bopping along, planning for next year fun and adventures, etc etc. You know the fee is $33 now, you've got 10 Scouts and maybe 6 leaders, so you have the $528 ready, possibly hedged about $160 for the increase. BUT WAIT - you will actually need (worst case) $1,600 or an additional $1,072 in total. This will be a shock to the system. Also if it does go to worst case, now new Scouts will need to pony up a big chunk. If you join Tigers with your young-un, and want to be a leader, that will be maybe $200. More if there are Unit dues. Will be tough. Family Scouting will be replaced by Ghost Leaders. We'll sign up the minimum, everyone else is a visiting parent.

We are supposed to recharter around the first weekend of November. Concern is we will not know the fee until maybe a week prior. I know they have said we will hear something about 10/23, but that is the earliest. Our unit has about 100 Scouts and Leaders. Currently that is maybe $3,300 for recharter. If the fee goes to (and this is worst case) $100 per Scout (*Hey - still a bargain!!) we will need to somehow come up with another $6,700. Many families may decide not to continue. Will take a minute to sort all of this out and determine a path forward. Not good planning at all. Between the UNKNOWN FEE and the REVISED BACKGROUND CHECK FORM and the DEPARTURE OF THE LDS UNITS my assumption is that CSE Surbaugh's Bonus and those of the National Staff is clearly tied to how many leave the program 2019 to 2020

Nope, the Scout Executive of the Council is there to raise money first, insure no bad issues make it to the press, meet their own goals for their bonus plan. Waaay down the list is start new Scouting units. The local DE is more in tuned to that effort. The SE (or CEO in many councils) would not be bothered with that. Main help should be the district volunteer staff, but that effectiveness varies widely from district to district.

Only if it fits the already decided upon agenda

Didn't you mean - Twenty-seven 8-by-10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was, to be used as a Guide to Safe Scouting – even including some aerial photography.

Sometimes the large industrial washers and dryers do a good job. I have washed some of my synthetic bags that way. Did a down one hand wash and tumbled at the laundry

Read Green Bar Bill Hillcourt's books. That will help

Is there a creek or lake nearby you can use for fire, etc? Typically it's about 1 gallon per person per day. If you are staying maybe 48 hours (2 days) with 30 people, I would take 60 gallons. We have camped at sites that do not have potable water there, but it is accessible. So we can refill. Hard part for toting 30 gallons of water is the weight, weighs about 8 lbs per gallon.

Pretty sure we know the answers. Surveys are taken to justify and support decisions already made

So reading the referenced "Pack Overnight Campout Site Appraisal Form", assume you can camp in your backyard, if it's astroturf like the Brady Bunch and nobody is throwing a ball. Anywhere else would be tough. Wonder what the actual definition of "hazards" may be. Would a footbridge, lake, or hill be a hazard?? 1. The camping site is clean and safe from hazards. __________ __________ 2. The site is not located near any natural or manmade hazards. __________ __________ 3. Campsite areas are available for tents. __________ __________ 4. Facilities are available for proper sanitary disposal of garbage. __________ __________ 5. Drinking water from an approved source is provided at convenient locations. __________ __________ 6. Emergency medical services (EMS) are available within 30 minutes from site. __________ __________ 7. Cellular phone service is available. __________ __________ 8. If fires are permitted, an adequate fire lay area is provided. __________ __________ 9. Any individual site hookups provided for electricity, water, or sewer meet all appropriate local and state health codes. __________ __________ 10. Each family site is located within 300 feet of a sanitary toilet facility. __________ __________ 11. Shelter is available for program activities during inclement weather.

BSA seems to be going all in on the surveys...wonder if they are learning anything

Agree it could be a cause for concern. Our troop charges $100 annually for dues (no fundraisers), then pay as you go for outings. 9 regular outings that run about $15 each, 1 winter trip that runs about $50, 2 summers camps, each about $350. If a Scout attended all events, it would be $935 annually. Note that most of our leaders contribute the gas used for outings. Meals for outings would be extra. That being said the Scout would have 15 to 16 nights camping for weekends, 12 nights camping at Summer camps. It is a good value. Admittedly if the National Fee goes up maybe $50, that would be a 5% increase if you attend everything, but a 50% increase in our annual dues. It would still be a tough pill to swallow.

Current is $33. Estimates for the new rate vary widely from $45 up to $100. So maybe we start an over under pool In speaking with a DE we mentioned maybe a $20 increase, and he sort of shrugged and said or maybe more.....

You are assuming the male leaders identify as male...one cannot assume in the this brave new world. I do actually wonder how that would play out. All female troop, one male leader identifying as male and one currently biological male that identifies as female; is this in compliance with YPT?

That is an interesting sentiment. Is the world really that dark? A predator behind every tree? If YPT guidelines are followed there should not be any issue. With all the gender inclusiveness it should be "youth" and then "adults (over 21)" End of story.

I wonder if he had worked at the local Auto Parts store if his employer would have been included in the story? Many Scouts and those that work at camps do not realize they are in fact held to a higher standard. Forgot about that one, sort of read like a Grateful Dead experience.....

The possibilities are endless: Prettiest Fish caught Cutest fish caught Slimiest Fish caught Most fish dropped on the ground Falling in the lake award Dropping rod and reel in the lake award Most hooks in your clothes award Most worms/bait lost to fish Furthest cast Shortest cast

Surprised it took this long for the issue to be acknowledged by the Wizards in Dallas and "shocked face" they made an exception. His claims of gender bias is spot on and will not stand for much longer. I found this quote, that was attributed to Jeannine Szatkowski, who writes the Scouter Mom blog fascinating "Girls may have issues they only feel comfortable talking about with women, so it’s important they have a leader to go to, she said". Not saying it does not have validity, but Wow, can you say double standard? 2 women can lead a boys den, but 2 men cannot lead a girls den. Can you imagine if the same quote was used for justifying having a male requirement for the boys (or actually I guess those that identify as boys)? People's heads would spin

Yep I made this observation years ago, the groups that do not like the BSA will not be pleased until there is no BSA. The organization is operating from the viewpoint that there will be compromise and we will move on with the program. Many who advocate for "change" do not want the program to move on and continue, they want it gone. The groups do not in fact have the same goal. The basic concept is that an organization should never attempt to please everybody; it’s simply impossible. They should try to please your constituency, your fans, your close friends; they will win over the unbelievers.

Insert lawyer joke here

Funny part is we sort of do that. When the Webelos cross over in the spring they have a new scout program April and May. Then summer camps, when we start back to regular meetings in August they are rolled into the existing patrols. For our troop we have found success in keeping a set number of patrols then add new Scouts to these as needed as they older Scouts age out. That works for us and provides continuity and encourages the older and more experienced Scouts to actually work with the new Scouts. They sort of wanted a guarantee of keeping them together, making sure they were lockstep. One parent in particular want to know when their Scout would be at X rank and what our "plan" was for advancement. Also wanted to know what specific requirements would be worked on at which outings so they could plan accordingly. I got the deer in headlights look from them as we explained that outings were not for advancement, they were for fun and adventure. IF a Scout needed to work on something, he certainly could, but that was up to him. She asked if we "allowed" a Scout to go for a few years and not advance a rank...we said yep. We don't monitor. You can lead a Scout to an outing, but you can't make him advance. Not sure she appreciated the humor. We explained there were many good units in the area.

Are any other units seeing the Web III syndrone as you have Webelos come visiting troops? We had the some come visit, the parents wanted assurances that their den (patrol??) would be kept together and "allowed" to progress together. They have been friends since whenever blah blah blah We had a conversation that in our unit we roll the new Scouts into the patrols, this helps them become part of the troop and function within the troop. As they work with the more experienced Scouts they will learn Scouting Skills, group dynamics, etc etc. We explained that while they will work with their patrol, they will be on outings with the troop, so they can be with their current friends, they can hang their hammocks together, etc. Also I made the comment that many boys who are close friends in 5th grade may not be as inseparable by 7th or 8th grade and time in middle school. Expanding their ability to interact outside their close friend group is a positive trait. Not sure my input was believed. When we discussed that Scouts move through the ranks at their own pace, and not as a group they wanted to know who monitors their advancement progress. We explained that the troop has many resources to assist and we are there as needed, but each Scout moves at their pace and is responsible for their own progress. They explained that another unit would keep their Webelos den together as a patrol and work with them to make sure they advance, up to and including Eagle Scout. Our feedback was that our main emphasis was to have Scouts plan and attend the outings, to have fun, to have challenging rewarding activities, and to have personal growth. Advancement comes as a result of these activities and does not drive the activities. We noted that we have a good number of Eagle Scouts annually (maybe 35% of the ones in the district) because we have an environment that keeps older Scouts engaged and active. This is not the first group of families to express this...was wondering if other units were seeing this. "Can you mold your program to what I need?"

Well...I guess they have retired "Scout Me In"??

You learn something daily, I thought their motto was ABC; Always Be Closing (cookie sales that is...) Just kidding, please, no GSUSA lawyers hunting me down