Jameson76

The possibilities are endless: Prettiest Fish caught Cutest fish caught Slimiest Fish caught Most fish dropped on the ground Falling in the lake award Dropping rod and reel in the lake award Most hooks in your clothes award Most worms/bait lost to fish Furthest cast Shortest cast

Surprised it took this long for the issue to be acknowledged by the Wizards in Dallas and "shocked face" they made an exception. His claims of gender bias is spot on and will not stand for much longer. I found this quote, that was attributed to Jeannine Szatkowski, who writes the Scouter Mom blog fascinating "Girls may have issues they only feel comfortable talking about with women, so it’s important they have a leader to go to, she said". Not saying it does not have validity, but Wow, can you say double standard? 2 women can lead a boys den, but 2 men cannot lead a girls den. Can you imagine if the same quote was used for justifying having a male requirement for the boys (or actually I guess those that identify as boys)? People's heads would spin

Yep I made this observation years ago, the groups that do not like the BSA will not be pleased until there is no BSA. The organization is operating from the viewpoint that there will be compromise and we will move on with the program. Many who advocate for "change" do not want the program to move on and continue, they want it gone. The groups do not in fact have the same goal. The basic concept is that an organization should never attempt to please everybody; it’s simply impossible. They should try to please your constituency, your fans, your close friends; they will win over the unbelievers.

Insert lawyer joke here

Funny part is we sort of do that. When the Webelos cross over in the spring they have a new scout program April and May. Then summer camps, when we start back to regular meetings in August they are rolled into the existing patrols. For our troop we have found success in keeping a set number of patrols then add new Scouts to these as needed as they older Scouts age out. That works for us and provides continuity and encourages the older and more experienced Scouts to actually work with the new Scouts. They sort of wanted a guarantee of keeping them together, making sure they were lockstep. One parent in particular want to know when their Scout would be at X rank and what our "plan" was for advancement. Also wanted to know what specific requirements would be worked on at which outings so they could plan accordingly. I got the deer in headlights look from them as we explained that outings were not for advancement, they were for fun and adventure. IF a Scout needed to work on something, he certainly could, but that was up to him. She asked if we "allowed" a Scout to go for a few years and not advance a rank...we said yep. We don't monitor. You can lead a Scout to an outing, but you can't make him advance. Not sure she appreciated the humor. We explained there were many good units in the area.

Are any other units seeing the Web III syndrone as you have Webelos come visiting troops? We had the some come visit, the parents wanted assurances that their den (patrol??) would be kept together and "allowed" to progress together. They have been friends since whenever blah blah blah We had a conversation that in our unit we roll the new Scouts into the patrols, this helps them become part of the troop and function within the troop. As they work with the more experienced Scouts they will learn Scouting Skills, group dynamics, etc etc. We explained that while they will work with their patrol, they will be on outings with the troop, so they can be with their current friends, they can hang their hammocks together, etc. Also I made the comment that many boys who are close friends in 5th grade may not be as inseparable by 7th or 8th grade and time in middle school. Expanding their ability to interact outside their close friend group is a positive trait. Not sure my input was believed. When we discussed that Scouts move through the ranks at their own pace, and not as a group they wanted to know who monitors their advancement progress. We explained that the troop has many resources to assist and we are there as needed, but each Scout moves at their pace and is responsible for their own progress. They explained that another unit would keep their Webelos den together as a patrol and work with them to make sure they advance, up to and including Eagle Scout. Our feedback was that our main emphasis was to have Scouts plan and attend the outings, to have fun, to have challenging rewarding activities, and to have personal growth. Advancement comes as a result of these activities and does not drive the activities. We noted that we have a good number of Eagle Scouts annually (maybe 35% of the ones in the district) because we have an environment that keeps older Scouts engaged and active. This is not the first group of families to express this...was wondering if other units were seeing this. "Can you mold your program to what I need?"

Well...I guess they have retired "Scout Me In"??

You learn something daily, I thought their motto was ABC; Always Be Closing (cookie sales that is...) Just kidding, please, no GSUSA lawyers hunting me down

When National raised the rates last time (by $12) our annual dues had always included BL for all Scouts. Moving forward we kept the dues the same and let the Scouts choose Y or N for an additional $12 if they wanted BL. Not sure if any of the Scouts take BL any longer

But but...we've been told that Scouts Canada is the success story that Scouts BSA is following?? Was the entire story not revealed?

Also BSA may have issues with these activities Firebuilding - which contributes to global warming Citizenship in the Nation - which continues to support the capitalistic dogma the country was founded on Knife basics - which promotes use of (yikes) a knife Fingerprinting - Which supports the overreaching police state Swimming - which promotes class separation as not everyone has equal access to a pool Automotive Maintenance - which also promotes class separation as not everyone has equal access to a car

I would take it one step further in why the ethical decision making will be tossed onto the scrap heap, and @Eagledad nailed it with the note of "challenging a scout". If we as leaders (adults, youth troop, youth patrol) challenge a youth on his decisions; not only ethical but practical ones on an outing; are we not potentially bullying the Scout into our way of thinking. The concept of bullying has evolved into one being made uncomfortable by someone else. I would also say that this statement while optimistic, is rose colored glasses. As BSA morphs from what is was to what it may become, it will be vastly different. The family camping aspect and recruiting of the family will be the end of traditional Boy Scouts Scouts BSA. As the expectation of the families that they will be all part of campouts moves into Scouts BSA the Webelos 3 concept will become less an anomaly and more of commonplace I would respectfully disagree with this. Membership is down and is about to be 20% down. Camps are being sold, staff is being laid off, fees are looking to double or treble, councils are adding fees on top of fees, marketing is non-existent, the main focus is on many things and NOT the core If you reference back to the October 2017 announcements, when they talk about adding Girls to the traditional programs Surbaugh basically states that BSA needs to expand and they are out of ideas, that the move is the hail Mary. Sadly I feel he is way out of touch with what successful units are doing to be successful, and is trying to be the socially aware organization that literally will not satisfy anyone. We have lost focus of the outdoor classroom concept, let youth work as a group and explore how to succeed, and possibly fail in relatively safe environment

Oh yeah. But with a CEO SE that makes close to $500 grand and a Deputy SE, other various directors, multiple development directors. multiple field directors, it is pretty obvious who calls the shots. Council President changes every 2 - 3 years, so the continuity lays with the pros.

But, make no mistake - volunteers and senior paid staff largely make the big decisions in a council.  Fixed your last part

Popcorn sales...more popcorn sales. That stuff isn't shilling itself. It takes a well trained professional to actually believe and convince others that the Chocolate Lovers Collection is worth $60 and a Large Bag of White Cheddar Cheese popcorn is a GREAT value @ $20. Let's not forget the 18 pack of microwave popcorn for $20 (which is $1.11 per pack) while a Pop Secret package for a box of 30 can be had for $13.50 (which is $0.45 per pack). The salesmanship lessons led by the dedicated DE are something to behold

The challenge may not be stay or quit, but get started. For current Scouts, if it gets North of $50 many will reconsider. For NEW members, especially Cubs, you need to sign up little youth PLUS yourself. Fee is $50, to sign up you, your kid is $100, plus uniforms, books, possible pack dues; you could be looking at $250 - $300 to get involved

Agree that Scout Me In was not great. Seemed to be more focused on younger youth, not really resonating with the older youth. Though honestly BSA seems hell bent on being a Cub Scout group, I guess they feel that is where the members may come from. Not sure the "Family" focus will get what they want either. Year Cubs Scouts V / Exp Members 1960 49% 44% 7% 3,783,000 1970 52% 41% 7% 4,683,000 1980 53% 33% 14% 3,207,000 1990 55% 26% 19% 3,933,000 2000 63% 30% 7% 3,351,914 2010 58% 33% 9% 2,739,692 2018 59% 38% 3% 2,076,716

Well - as many do recharter in NOV and DEC, gonna have to have a fee at some point.

Honestly the challenge is, or the question is, that at a National and Council level, NOT the unit level, have we lost our focus as an organization? The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. The Vision is The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law. At the UNIT level we do this with campouts, fun activities, community service, projects, letting Scouts run things etc etc. From my experience, the vast majority of the units do a good job of this and continue to execute that mission and vision. Focusing on outdoor activities and doing stuff that other youth based groups (and it is a crowded marketplace) are not doing. The CHALLENGE is that at the National and Council level the focus seems to be less on actions and more on fund raising (can you say popcorn) and the social issues that BSA feels they need to focus on. I am not saying that the societal issues are not important. These would be child abuse, bullying, etc. But should that be our our front focus? These efforts should be PART of who we are, not the REASON that we are. The question is, does the current PAID Executive leadership, and make no mistake they drive the ship, really fully understand the program and what works at the grass roots level? IMHO I would say no. BSA has a unique offering that can truly benefit the youth we serve. If we continue to focus on non core initiatives, then many of those youth will not even come through the door.

Nail....coffin

There is another hurdle (beyond the impending fee increase) tagged for recharter this year. Another update from National BSA is that all registered adult leaders must review the Background Check Disclosure and complete the BSA’s new Background Check Authorization. These authorization forms must be submitted with each unit’s recharter this December. No recharters will be able to be processed without this signed form from all registered adult leaders that are being renewed for the 2020 calendar year. Input is that units do not have access to the form right now. Hopefully they will be available soon. Each registered leader is expected to receive the form directly. Wonder how that will work. Possibly the councils will have copies of the form available before and during the recharter process. The form will be required to recharter any adult.

Noted that Travelers has mentioned the NY State statute of limitations change in their 10Q. Also understand that the issue and costs is less about the predatory sexual assault lawsuits (which is bad) and more about the accident and injury claims. These seem to be more numerous than prior years and consequently more costly than prior. This of course drives up rates. Concern is that the increase may not be in the $10 range but could be substantially higher, possibly north of $20 range. That would / could be an issue if it ends up being the case

Did you have any Cubs or Webelos there? They can be doing some activity to draw in the interest Rather than a poster maybe a video running on a laptop, motion trumps static display

The COH should be planned, developed, and executed by the Scouts. They run it, depending on the unit, CM's, ASM's and SM may hand out ranks and merit badges. Not sure what was covered under citations. If there was / is a concern with the COH, the TLC (formerly known as Greenbar) should address The separate ice cream social as a unit, that happened unbeknownst to the SM is a concern. Actually sort of rude. If there is a challenge with the SM and his actions (and he has been SM for what...6 months??) address with the COR and the committee, and the SM. Don't start a troop within a troop. It will not end well

Ours Council letter came out, points to National as the holder of the details and why it's late, also they had this ever so helpful suggestion - In addition, we have been working with our partners at Trail's End to ensure we have enough popcorn available for any unit interested in additional sales to raise the funds necessary to recharter in December. You cannot make this stuff up, fees are going up?? Hey, sell MORE popcorn!!