PACAN

@Eagle94-A1Not hard to meet goals when they are set very low to begin with.  The solution is to just remove the goal like they did with TF Pull ups.

If Council A is failing and they are next to Council B who is not, will B be forced to take on A?

Council EBs are always close lipped about any news that makes them look bad.   How any camp closure surprises have we seen posted on the forum?

@gpurlee  Of course if Councils are the CO they are going to add as many fees and restrictions as they can and likely require attendance at their Summer Camp.  Follow the money.  Also seems like the UMC is forcing scouting out of the church all on their own.  Your 2nd paragraph is "funny"  National forcing councils to do anything.  Look how much input the councils probably had in coming to the UMC/BSA agreement.

@5thGenTexan  Your DE sounds like a typical piece of work

@Scoutmaster Teddy   Not surprised

If a new sponsor isn't happening and as unpleasant it might be to disband, get your scouts into another troop since they come first.   Their new units will welcome all they dedicated UMC leaders too.

JMHO.

I didn't see any update or change to the agreement on the methodist scouter website

Wonder what your council would say?

wonder if your conference will call Oklahoma and ask did they ask "Big UMC" if they are able to do #1.

keep us posted.  Nada from our council.

Interesting..so it appears that the UMC the individual conferences can do what they want.   Confusing to the other C10 Texas units that probably go the same SE communication.

The top part talks about 120 day transition period starting July 1st.

If #1 is true then the UMC and BSA have really jerked around their membership

Wonder what your IH will say monday.

I have heard of no UMC units that want #2.   

Units are probably better off doing #3 on their own vice having the council do it.  New Charter might be in East oshkosh wisconsin 😜

That's interesting since #1 is not in the UMC/BSA signed agreement.

#3 is also interesting. Don't give up any assets until you transfer them to your new Charter Partner

Anyone seen any FAQ?

@quazse..."before the ageist policy against adults earning Eagle was nationalized."

Not sure what this has to do with youth membership. Adults were allowed to earn Eagle until 1952, in theory, to help the WWII vets who went to war.  Councils ignored this and continued to award Eagle until national changed the rules in 1965 by adding the requirement to service in a Troop Warrant Officer position (and added the Eagle Project).

@5thGenTexan  What is a District Commissioner?  Haven't seen one in 10+ years.

There is a place for a National HQ...question is what functions NEED to be done there.  If they have downsized as much as skeptic says, what aren't they doing that needs to be done and what are they doing that doesn't need to be done.

Companies downsize and shrink everyday, some eventually fade into oblivion.

The BSA has about 250 councils....over 50 have less than 1000 youth and another 50 less than 1500 youth.   Lots of infrastructure and costs associated with maintaining this structure.  My understanding is that national has no real power to force mergers of LCs

The overall membership is at its lowest level in the past 75 years.  Less customers would seem that it's time to evaluate the infrastructure needed to support a lesser customer base.  Hope springs eternal that membership will return but if it does, then you react to that.

The UMC sponsors about 20% of all units and probably about 20% of the remaining membership.  With the church decision to no longer sponsoring units, what is the impact?  How many units will be able to fins a new sponsor and I've heard no one who thinks being sponsored by their LC is a good solution.  Any of you heard of how/if your LCs are going to do this?

All is, as always,  JMHO.

@gpurlee  Thanks for the education.  I would have thought that the FAQ would have been released with the agreement notification (oh well)

I'm unclear how the UMC would avoid any lawsuits if they had any involvement associated with scouting (even providing space).   The lawyers might say you are still involved in scouting and not being a sponsor now doesn't alleviate prosecution for a lawsuit when you were a sponsor.   Will they take the same approach for all their youth groups?

Also the UMC must know where the abuse was/is and take action on those churches not indict the entire UMC.

Maybe #5 option is to merge with another unit if #1-4 don't work.

JMHO...we will see how it works out. Hopefully the best for the scouts as they should be priority #1.

Just was sent a Facebook link to a umnews.org article.

one statement was interesting that said they hoped to continue scouting in the UMC.  Funny way of going about it.

@skeptic

That's great, and they should be proud of you guys, but I don't know if your Minister gets a vote.   I'm not sure how the overarching UMC has "control" over the entire UMC churches.  Your Minister knows the politics involved I'm sure.

The Council will be your sponsor which means in the BSA that they control all your assets.  We have seen lots of posts asking "who owns the trailer" etc and the sponsor does.  If your "council sponsor" decided to use the units assets, they can.

Good luck!

@Eagle1993Wouldn't it be nice if the true customer (the scouts) had it better than the LC or the UMC for once.

Any feedback from the UMC units would be of interest to the group.

IMHO, The losers in this agreement are the units.   Give us your money and equipment, pay us for the insurance on your gear and the LC will sponsor you!   

@vol_scouter and neither do the councils.

IMHO...the only group that benefits from this is the UMC washing their hands of their units some long time ones.

@MikeS72   Thanks...I found a 2013 list where it showed 10K units and 350K scouts.  Clearly that is not the case now but how in the world are councils going to sponsor even 2000 units unless they provide the same oversight (read slim and none) oversight to them.  Another example where National is pushing workload to councils with no resources.  

How many units and scouts are affected by this decision?   A friend of mine thought there were around 50 units in his council.  

Back from summer camp.  I did a very unscientific poll of UMC units while there.  Sample size small.  None of them had heard about this, not surprising.   All said that if they had to have their councils be their sponsors, they might as well shut down and find troops for their scouts to transfer to as this would be just one more thing their council couldn't handle.    That was sad but they only had 10 scouts.

#3 sounds great until they decide your reasonable definition is different than theirs.

#4  So the sponsor used to have insurance on the property they owned.  Now the council owns the property as the sponsor and the unit has to pay the council.  What a deal!  The unit will also have to pay the council for the annual audit of their accounts.  What another deal!  Maybe subtract these fees from FOS.

Proofs in the pudding.  Who has the agreement they could PM me?

Catholics....not managed like the UMC.  Dioceses are separate feifdoms.  Pastors have a lot of say on their own Parish's youth ministries.   A number of them dropped units when the gay decision was made and started trail life.

Given the almost 50% reduction in membership, I'm guessing a number of other sponsors have dropped their units as well.  Anyone seen a list of membership/units by sponsor.  Last one I saw was pre LDS. 

@1980Scouter  The Catholic Church through the National Catholic Committee on Scouting continues to support the chartering of scout units (both Boys and Girls) in individual dioceses and parishes.  Of course they are free to choose not to or not to continue to charter.

@MikeS72  There is the assets question.   Will the individual UMC still allow storage of gear they don't control on their property?  Will that stuff be insured by the church?  If the trailer hits a car in the parking lot, do you sue the council?  Will be BSA as the sponsor rent a u-store it place for each unit they inherit.   Some units not only have trailers but some have their own motorboating and cabins.  On the cash side, LCs are at least 30 days in paying bills.  How does that work for unit expenses?  Collect the fees for campout food, deposit it with the council and send them the bill from the grocery store?   O the humanity!

All that follows is JMHO. UMC units will need to make a hard decision.  I'd like to see the FAQs.  They will not likely get any help from their church.  I have no say in the matter but it's unfortunate that the church didn't seem to have the scouts best interest in giving the BSA control over their parishioners sons/daughters scouting experience.

Some smaller units will try and get their scouts into other units.  Some larger ones with longevity will decide if they can find another sponsor.    If any move to BSA control, I hope they move over with minimal resources since LC will "take over their assets."   Like was stated before, units that folded took their treasury, divided by the number in the troop and gave the money to each of them.  They also gave away much of their equipment to other units.

I wish them all well.