Eagle1993

Interesting follow up to this article. The www.scouting.org website recently changes Boy Scouting from "Boys" 11 - 17 years old to "Youth" 11 - 17 years old. It also sates "This is the traditional Scouting experience for youth in the fifth grade through high school. Service, community engagement and leadership development become increasingly important parts of the program as youth lead their own activities and work their way toward earning Scouting’s highest rank, Eagle Scout." https://www.scouting.org/programs/boy-scouts/ Emphasis was added by me. This aligns to the changes they made to the Cub Scouting description before offering girl dens. If you click on Join you can see the prior description that Boy Scouting is for "Boys" 11-17 years old. I think there is a lot of smoke here that BSA4G will be nearly identical to the Cub Scout implementation. Time will tell...

I started to write paragraphs of my and other parents’ experience with GSUSA but I decided I was becoming not Scout like. I’ll just say when we started girls in our Pack my wife, other leaders and I were very protective of GSUSA. After my daughter’s experience and hearing reports of others we have all lost respect for that organization and unless something changes I plan to pull my daughter out (as do others).

Option 1 - If BSA requires separate Troops for girls they will form a girl Troop and meet at the same time/place. They have enough ASMs to staff up a girl Troop from their existing Boy Scout Troop. Option 2 - Based on rumors we are hearing BSA may allow Troops to add girls as a separate Patrol. They would prefer Option 2 but either case leads to the same functional outcome. One note.. this Troop has had girls unofficially participating for years. They can’t do summer camps or other council activities but they go on high adventure and other outings. A few even work on MBs (unofficially). So the culture of the Troop is essentially coed.

Thought I would post a few updates. We have added 12 Scouts since January (8 girls and 4 boys). One of the boys joined with his sister and another joined when the parents learned of us adding girls (that boy’s sisters will join in the fall as they have too many conflicts now). We have 1 more Girl Tiger registration in progress and a couple more possible but we are looking to stop new registrations soon and restart in the fall. Note we did decide to have the Girl Tiger den meeting during the same time/place as the boys. We have separate leaders so they can be segregated. We will monitor to see how this goes vs our other girl only den meeting. By making this change a couple of fraternal twin girls (who were already attending the Boy Tiger den meeting) can join. During our recent B&G all of the girls attended. We do FOS during B&G and our girls den picture was in the council FOS pitch. The Scoutmaster for the Troop we feed was also there (talking about Klondike awards) and gave an enthusiastic speech about why it is great to have girls officially in Scouts. He stated that the Troop plans to add them as soon as possible. All of the families and scouts applauded the new girls after the speech so it seemed to be a great welcome for them. So far, no boy parents have complained or expressed any concern. I’m sure there are some, but they have been silent and have kept their sons in the Pack. PBS may be working on a story regarding girls in Cub Scouts. We are in discussions about having them film a den meeting. We will see if it goes forward. I’m starting to hear negative feedback regarding keeping the girls in separate dens. This is coming from various parents and a few boy den leaders. Not too many yet, but seeing boys and girls segregated is not typical within any local organization in our community and there have been a few comments about “separate but equal”. Other than the slightly mixed Tiger den (same bat time and same bat channel but segregated) we are planning on keeping them separate for the rest of the year. The parents accepted that answer. I see this as a debate over the summer. GSUSA Troops in our school will lose members and leaders. That part is getting a bit ugly. One of the Troop leaders agreed to finish the year but informed GSUSA she was resigning from the Troop along with her daughter and a few other girls. I’ve heard from many other parents who plan to sign up girls this fall, based on rough estimates we think our Pack will be 20-30% girls. Only time will tell. Those are the major updates at this point.

What about the cell phone vibration motor? I would expect that to be magnetic, just not sure how much. Note... be careful around any Lithium ion battery. Mechanical damage to that battery could cause a fire. Even when the cell phone is discharged there is a remaining charge in the battery ... so the potential exists.

I think THIS is what is critical. All of us have some idea, but in aggregate it would be interesting for DEs to share some details to unit leaders on common themes. While I wasn’t able to get a report on why from my DE, he did share a print out of every unit in my district and their past 8 year membership numbers. I was able to use that as a new CC to reach out to the successful units (in terms of attrition) and get some recruiting and org structure ideas. Attending district meetings I’m shocked that Boy Scout Troops do not have high adventure activities every year. Some never do HA. Why? As a kid, I remember the HA outings were a big reason why I stuck with my Troop for several years after Eagle (I could care less about palms). In the end, units vary greatly and over the last 20 years there are successful units and those that fold. BSA should be more open with existing units on these reasons vs protecting the data and making their own conclusions.

Problem is Venturing grew until 2008. It has dropped 66% in last 10 years. Cubs is also a concern as that includes addition of some Lions. Sounds like Boy Scout Numbers may Be up a bit as Some Venturing converted over to Boy Scouts. All in all... not a great report on numbers. Hope this starts turning around soon.

Wow... Venturing is dieing. Down over 50% in last 4 years and now under 100k. With some of those girls moving on to BS4G I don’t see it lasting much longer without some sort of revamp. I hope these numbers fully reflect LDS exit.

I’ve had a few conversations with various leaders from council and the opinion that was shared is that Venturing is their weakest program... lowest numbers and highest attrition rate. Some leaders from council speculated that Nationals would make Venturing the program for girls (expand the age range to 10 and use the Boy Scout rank advancement). I’m not sure it is headed that way, but it seems from my council that they do not plan on investing much time or effort in the program. I’m fine with Scoutreach but I don’t see STEM or Learning for Life as core to the BSA. Venturing seems much more core to our mission and could see significant involvement if we advertised more. Based on what I have been hearing, I don’t believe that is the opinion of leadership.

Is that what he meant or did he mean Scoutreach? I know our council spends a lot of time on both L4L and Scoutreach vs Venturing.

No it does not. Some Packs did get together to do bussing in the past but there was limited usage as many kids weren’t excited to spend 1.5 - 2 hours per day on a bus. Plus if there was an issue on the interstate it could take much longer (in order to get to the camp you really need to take the only east/west interstate in the area and an accident can significantly impact the commute time). The in town day camp ended up being a more successful solution.

One highlight from my Council is our in town day camp. Our council camps work great for some scouts, but they are 45 min to 1 hour commute from some areas of our council. That commute time does not work well for Cub Scout day camp. So, the council added some camps closer to the areas of the council that are far from our camps. One is held at a parish school. They have a lot of great activities including shooting sports (inside the school). They also do 1 field trip to camp for water sports. This has really helped more scouts attend a day camp. One somewhat funny story. They were originally going to hold this in town day camp at an US Army Reserve base; however, the city where that base is located does not allow any discharge of weapons (which include BB guns). So, they changed locations and the B.B. gun range is in a parish school basement.

I think those skorts are too short of those religions.

I’m sorry to hear your experience with the PWD didn’t go well. While we don’t allow parents to adjust cars during the race (PWD is already crazy enough), we would allow quick minor repairs especially if a car does not make it down the track. I’d recommend talking with the den leader or Cubmaster to provide some feedback. Our Pack also awards the 3 slowest cars (for this who unintentionally or intentionally are slower). The slowest car wins Ess Car Go. That is a fun adder for those scouts and it keeps more kids engaged during the entire race. As far as tools to help, there are various tools that help ensure the axels is inserted correctly with the correct spacing. You could use this the add a bit of glue to ensure the axel doesn’t move later. http://www.hobbylinc.com/pine-car-pine-car-axle-placement-guide-pinewood-derby-tool-and-accessory-p4611?source=froogle&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5faYqYWw2QIVRbjACh3jggONEAQYBiABEgKpY_D_BwE Good luck and hope future events go well.

We just had an issue in January where my Pack charter was held up as the Troop (same CO) listed a new and different COR. The council eventually let my charter go thru but they made the Troop change their COR back. So, I think this is still the rule.... at least in my council.

Yes. I was thinking of our Blue and Gold banquet and if a disgruntled/deranged parent would come in shooting. Would we and our scouts and scout leaders know what to do. Probably not. It’s sad that it should be considered but I believe schools have this training and so should Scouts and their leaders.

I wouldn’t be surprised if someone outside of scouting would think this but a cub leader.. that is just sad. I would think everyone would want their kids to learn gun safety and proper operation in combination with the Scout Oath and Law.

Our Pack had 12 den leaders and only 3 are female. That said, those three are some of our best leaders. One of our female den leaders spent a semester in NOLS and spent a semester camping out in Denver area. She is was teaching several dads techniques to stay warm and dry clothing overnight before Klondike. She somehow manages our den of 26 Tigers. She will be our future Cubmaster. Not sure how common our male/female ratio is in our district.... I agree that keeping den leaders energized is very difficult and a leader that may work out well for Tigers is not the same leader that works for Webelos. I think re-evaluating den leader decisions each year may be a good practice. @Eagledad what was the program changes that you made that helped retention? Overall ours isn’t bad but I’m always interested in hearing ideas that could improve the experience of leaders and scouts.

Yep. I saw their memorial in Washington DC. Oh wait... Point is that attempting to say we need to arm all Americans with AR-15s in order to fight the government is ridiculous. There are a few groups that tried arm conflict with the US government recently (WACO, Oklahoma City bombing, 9-11, Bundys come to mind). Those efforts failed and will continue to fail. No amount of AR-15 will allow citizens to fight the government... they will always have more firepower. If your not happy with the government you vote. If you want to keep high power rifles with large magazines legal, that is fine, just don’t use some sort of lame excuse that you need them to fight tyranny. Several of the arguments in this thread are much more valid.

Hmmm... we had the 2nd amendment but yet both of your examples still occurred. I’d point to MLK or Ghandhi as examples of those who gained rights and freedom through non violence without the need to arm mentally ill teenagers with AR-15s.

Actually, the tool to fight tyranny is called a ballot. You’ll have much more success than going after Pence or Trump (or any other so called Tyrant) with an AR-15. I would not recommend that approach.

We had parents of one of our scouts present at the Las Vegas shooting. The father is a hunter and immediately recognized the sound of bullets going thru the air, so he and his wife ran immediately out of the area being targeted. The mother comforted one of the victims who was shot through the neck. It was incredibly traumatic event for both involved. I remember as a youth when we only did Tornado and fire drills... now these kids perform lockdown drills. It really puts the problems in your life in perspective.

It is a lot of work...and honestly they are very young. Multiple times I’ve felt something on my leg and it was a Lion giving me a hug. Kinda sad but I’m not comfortable with that at all, I get self conscious that the parents will think I’m a creep. So I gently pull the young one away and get him back on task only to have the other leg attacked by another. If your parents already think of Cub Scouts at Tiger age then I wouldn’t recommend it. For us, I feel that it helps to get the kids and parents together at a young age in prep for real Cub Scouts. I think of it as more of an early sustained Join Scouts Night than a real Cub Scout rank.

I’m good with the changes they made. I definitely recommend the minimal Pack activity so as to not burn them out over 5.5 years. We also limit Tiger activities in some cases as well. I agree with those that burn out can be a concern, so adding additional activities as Scouts age is critical. This takes a lot of work but with a larger pack is manageable. Our first year we had 18 Lions. 15 made it to Tiger (we added 9 additional Tigers who were not Lions). This year we have 12 Lions (excluding girls). Typically we would only see 8-10 Tigers join each year. I think we lost a lot of potential scouts in the early years as parents start setting up their sons activities at a young age. Dasies start at the same age as Lions and prior to Lions I had to turn away parents who were confused when Cub Scouts started. Several of those parents never returned.

You’ll make hundreds of these VERY happy with this strategy.