Eagle1993

It is VERY early still. Both of my sisters are leaders in their Packs and both packs just recently (yesterday and last week) voted to include girls. You may want to talk to your DE, they would know which units in your District are discussing “Family” packs.

Speculation within the source community where this data was presented. I agree speculation has been going on here for much longer. What is the girl bear den called? “Bear Den” . What is the girl Cub Scout Pack called? “Cub Scout Pack” The point is that both girl and Boy Scout Troops could simply be called “Scout Troops” going forward as their programs are identical. The only reason I mentioned this was the source. But I agree it is still speculation, BSA4G is fine with me.

FAQ document indicates changes are coming for uniforms, Boy’s Life, OA, training (including Den Chief training) and various program materials. They also indicated there will be changes with United Way... Speculation is now going on what BSA will call the Girls Boy Scout Troops. Some are saying that both will simply be call Scout Troops. So you would have Cub Scouts, Scouts And Venturing. Who knows... I think the separate Troops will keep SPLs to the same gender as the PLs and perhaps ease the transition.

Thanks for clarifying. I don’t think I’ve heard of crossovers before a Scout enters 5th grade but it appears possible. Most of the Packs I’ve seen cross over at the earliest in December.

Oops. Posted this series in wrong topic. Could an admin move this one? Thanks!

Few interesting points...FAQ indicates boy and girl Troops cannot have the same SM. boy and girl Troops can meet at same time and place

FAQ document updated Program for Older Girl Update and FAQ 3-5-18.pdf

See attached update sent out today by Nationals to SEs. Family_Scouting_Overview_Presentation_3-5-18.pdf

A fifth grader approached us and council had given the ok. We made it clear there would be a time period where they wouldn’t be in scouting. In the end she decided to wait for the Troop option (I think that was for the best). I’m not sure if we would have had her app approved all the way through Nationals if we did go thru with it.

I think you need 6 months in after completing 4th grade ... which typically means earliest anyone should cross over is December. So they would have to wait ~2 months unless I missed something. I don’t think this would represent many scouts. Has anyone done the math to see when the first girl Eagle will be awarded?

It looks like Troops start Feb 2019. That should be early enough for most 4th Grade girls. 5th graders were not supposed to join but I’m not sure how well that was enforced. If they exist they’ll have to wait after this summer when they age out of Cub Scouts.

Thanks for sending this out. Looks like they plan to keep separate Troops but worked out a way to allow some of the overhead (CC, Treasurer, committee chairs, etc.) to essentially work coed. I wonder if they will force separate names for ASM and SMs between the boy and girl Troops under one committee. Good to see dates out there. While I would like to see earlier the linked Troop idea should cut down some of the overhead and allow Girl Troops to form quickly starting Feb.

Good advice above. I think the order of priority would be ensuring the pack is safe, then the activities are fun and in line with teaching scout ideals and finally the advancement tracking. The lack of YPT/Adult applications (background checks) is a concern. I'm surprised the CC wouldn't be driving that issue. Not much you can do now, other than raise the concern. You didn't mention actual den/pack activities beyond B&G. Are the pack activities fun, appropriate & well attended? How are the individual dens run? Do you see high attrition in the pack? If there are issues with the actual program the scouts see, then you are facing a much bigger issue then some incomplete forms & tracking software. Finally, I don't see advancement tracking as a major concern for Cub Scouts. Our pack uses Scoutbook and as CC I help enter in the data, but our main mechanism is simply having Den Leaders talk with the parents. If we miss tracking pins/belt loops we don't consider an issue as long as the scout completes the required ones and we make sure to track the rank advancement. As you only have ~12months left in the pack making lasting change will be difficult without recruiting a parent of a young scout (Tiger/Wolf). If you COR is active (to ensure a good future CC) but your activities are strong, then you may just need a member or two on the committee to help the paperwork issues above. If your program is also starting to suffer, that could indicate an issue with the CC and/or CM. Again, find that young parent that has similar goals and have them join the committee. Depending on when the CC will move on (assuming they are there due to having scouts in the program) the parent can take over CC eventually. That is the role where you can really influence and improve the pack.

The Pack committee decides what process to use for handling funds and it is the treasurer’s job to enforce the policy. They should not invent hurdles for your already overburdened den leaders. I disagree with the treasurer regarding the mixing of money, unless that is Pack policy. We have done this frequently (for example a leader to puts a $1k deposit for a camp then deducts that from his sons camp charge to only ask $800 in credit). The treasurer should be able to handle this easily in their ledger. Our treasurer, who is also a den leader and a senior executive at his Corp, has never felt the role was that difficult or time consuming even while working efficiently with our den leaders. If the treasurer is not happy with the policy they should take that up with the committee. All of this should be done with a good attitude. You are all volunteers and systematic conflicts within leadership can destroy a Pack. It sounds like your CC needs to step in to help mediate the situation.

I’ve now heard from several sources the plan is to vote on the proposed program for girls during the May national meeting. We should know the answer in June.

A group is maintaining a map of every council with early adopter Packs. See below: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1UMMudFUybRb5G2mun-tIQ7_jWU3_Lel1&ll=43.0890255520589%2C-97.97409562070374&z=4

Supreme Court has not been consistent. You can also look at prior decisions that focused on the militia as being the purpose of the 2nd amendment. Presser vs Illinois claimed the national government cannot regulate guns but the states can. US vs Miller “In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense. Aymette v. State, 2 Humphreys (Tenn.) 154, 158. The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."' Constitutional scholars disagree. Liberals focus on the well regulated militia and can point to clear case law. Conservatives focus on the people portion and point to other case law. Even with recent decisions and the current Court makeup there is plenty of space for additional gun control. The Supreme Court just denied an appeal of California’s 10 day wait period.

I would imagine that BSA would have filed a trademark by now if a new name is rolling out. I’ve been watching the trademark listing and haven’t seen anything yet. Girl Guides does appear to be available for anyone to claim.

What was the experiment? I was 2 in 79 so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

BoSco is much better than an alt BoyScAm 😀

Probably depends on how many girls join. If girls represent 20-30% of total scouts I think this changes. One guess is that Boy Scouts of America moves to BSA (similar to Federal Express went to FedEx). Boy Scouts would become .... no clue. If girls represent 5% and our membership continues to decline we will become REI Scouts of America (or whatever brand(s) help bail us out). I agree that I don't think any change will happen immediately but a few years down the road it will.

They do exist .. at least 1... http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/story/news/2018/02/01/visalias-all-girl-cub-scout-pack-blazes-new-trails/1086714001/

A bit of background (just in case you haven’t seen this already). What has been officially announced is the girls from age 11 - 17 will form new yet to be determined groups similar to Boy Scout Troops. Since that time there has been no official clarification from nationals. Note that the official start date for this group is 2019 but no other specifics have been given. I have not heard of Troops in my district making plans for Girl Troops at this time; however, I expect that to change as soon as BSA officially announces the program.

@Treflienne Good to hear your interest and I wish you the best of luck! Thanks for the details and that is essentially what I have seen with my daughter’s Troop and what I have heard from other GSUSA members who have joined our Pack. The other issues I face is that our local Troop meetings are right after school so: - a lot of girls attend as a social activity and free after school daycare, many of them have no desire for doing outdoor activities (their outing that was voted on is going to the American Doll store) - Another Troop is not an option. We would never be able to get my daughter out of school to another Troop meeting on time, so if we don’t like our Troop’s activities we are out of luck. @ItsBrian is correct as I’m sure there are some great outdoor focused GSUSA Troops out there. I just wish it was more common but understand my daughter is probably in the minority (girls that would perfer a hike vs going to a doll store).

They also use “youth” for Cub Scouts. I think they are emphasizing separate dens and that is why they are not “coed”. When they initially announced the change last year then emphasized that there would be a new program for girls 11-17 (it wouldn’t be Boy Scouts). As they now updated Boy Scouts to youth it makes me think the Buzzfeed article is correct and they plan to allow girls to join Boy Scout Troops. I tend to agree the word “Boy” will be removed or replaced eventually.