curious_scouter

In our unit we treat Eagle COH as if a wedding reception. The Eagle and their family do the planning. From guest list to the ceremony. The family is welcome to use our meeting place (the church) for the ceremony but very often secure their own venue. Sometimes another church, rec hall or in the past they have even done it at the site of the Eagle Project itself. We have a COH outline, but the Scout and family can "make it their own". They key is making it special for the Scout(s) and their family/families.

this is what we do. We have 50 active scouts. They use their books to track advancement and honestly it's good because we allow any ASM to sign off requirements and we also allow Star Scouts who have been trained by the SM to sign off for First Class and under. No way with that number of scouts and that number of authorized signers that we'd get everything via online SB anyway. Keeping SB updated from their paper books would be a full time job. I have considered finding a volunteer to do it though - it would be amazing to have data to give to the PLC that X Scouts need a certain set of requirements. It's just not practical for us. The ONLY time I make an effort to load every single requirement from the paper book to SB is for Eagle Candidates. At the SM Conf I take a photo of their book and before they request their application from council I make sure Scoutbook reflects the dates exactly as signed off. On that note, one other thing I might start doing is retro-filling Star and Life MBs in Scoutbook. Otherwise Scoutbook "just decides" which MBs were used for which ranks and that puts the online info completely out of sync with the paper handbook and it makes the eagle application, signoffs, etc. a lot harder as the official individual advancement record from SB is completely different than their handbook.

Ours is not, but I know of a council in Ohio that is. I expect ours will follow suit. It's also possible they are doing this already but I am not aware as I hold a fee-paid position already.

@Brannigan - I know you're getting a lot of shade implying you created the situation with this person with your email or comment. I have been in your shoes with people like "Mr. Monster". I re-entered Scouting 8 years ago as an adult (all prior experience was as a youth) thinking it would be very much a "we're all on the same team, we all want a good program, a Scout is friendly, rah-rah" atmosphere among the adult leaders. Not exactly. Many were welcoming, helpful and patient with my "dumb ideas" and rose colored glasses. Some were deeply insecure and responded to any comment, idea or person that smells like "change" or something different with open hostility. I'm not talking cold shoulder or bad attitude, I'm talking raised voices and F-bombs. It's too bad. Because it only takes 1 or 2 (I had 3) of the deeply insecure people to really make life unpleasant in a unit. No kind of comment or opinion from someone new in a unit should elicit that kind of snap-back response. This time it happened via email, but it will happen in person. It's not you, it's definitely them. I know exactly the type of person this is and unfortunately there are more of them in scouting leadership than people might like to admit. These people get into it with all kinds of people all the time over the stupidest stuff. Last week one of my three got hot and started yelling at a new committee member because the committee member showed up in a tan uniform and that's only for ASMs and SMs. I kid you not. They took offense at a registered, paid position holder wearing a uniform to a meeting. So much so they lashed out at them directly in person. There is no cure but time unless they are bad enough to take it upstream with a report to council or higher. Scouting is generational. They will move on or you will move up and have more direct ability to address it. Until then, pick out who these people are, know they are how they are, and just be really careful around them. They are wild animals. It's not if they will bite you again but when. And it'll probably be when you're not expecting it. The only "good news" I think I can share is that as crummy as these people have been towards me and many other adults (parents included) they have never been anything but excellent with the scouts. That's probably their only saving grace.

What are some "leading questions" you keep in your mind to help point the SPL in the right direction and get them digging in on leading the Scouts at summer camp? Some that I've been noodling: Gear check at arrival, any initial concerns about what you have seen? Review of cabin/tent mates, any personalities to be aware of? Any concerns? Any goals for the Troop this week? Spirit award? Campsite inspection goals? RE: those goals, do you have a plan and people lined up in your head to lead tasks (share the load) How do you want to organize the move-in? Any projects you have in mind for downtime? Any activities? Board game night Troop basketball Swimming? Service project for camp? Sign to hang in pavilion? etc. Have you reviewed the schedule for the week? What camp activities do we need to prep for? Do we know the dining hall process? What time are flags and does everyone know proper dress and prep (troop flag?) Campfire programs? Competitions? etc What's the plan for general campsite hygiene? Trash? Sweep/clean bunks? Bathhouse restock / cleaning? Showers? Buddy system, check in/out of camp so we have a general idea who's with who and where (clothespins? Notebook?) PLC First Day Topics Do you know what Patrols are present and who the PL or acting PLs are for each? Make sure PLs and acting PLs know their responsibilities, set expectations with them early and often. Remind PLs to set example with uniform wearing for meals / campfires THEY should be primarily responsible to ensure their Patrol shows up proper and ready Remind PLs to keep an eye on their patrol members for any concerns and bring discreetly to SPL and/or Leaders when needed Homesickness Illness Personality Conflicts Remind PLs they are responsible (first line) for ensuring their Patrol bunks/tents are livable Any plans to have a PLC daily to share info, discuss concerns? Review camp policies, discuss with PLC and get approval for in-camp time at night and hard lights out time Final sign off required by SM How do you guys plan to ensure everyone's up on time and ready? Does everyone know where the first aid kit is? Does everyone know what to do in case of lightning or bad weather? Big Siblings Maybe go around and talk to older scouts discreetly. Remind them a lot of younger and first year scouts may get homesick. Encourage them to be supportive of each other, but let's also not make "missing home" be a broadcast topic. If a younger scout says they miss home, it's great to engage them, share that it's normal, share your own experience and how it turned out okay and that everyone is here for you. But, don't go up to the first year and say things like "I bet you're pretty homesick", etc. Be tactful.

EVENT NAME Location(s) For Outing TBD Challenge Tier Essential / Challenging / Advanced Departure Time & Location TBD Adult Coordinator TBD Return Time & Location TBD Scout In Charge TBD Duration TBD 2-Up Leader Fulfilled? NO - LEADERS NEEDED Planning Needs Tour Permit Required? Filed? Meal Plan: Patrol Menus / Troop Cooking / Eating on the road / etc. Permission Slips or Release Required? Maps / GPS / Compasses Needed? Float Plan Needed? Weather considerations? (hazardous weather, cold weather, hot weather) Transportation TBD Equipment List [ADD LINK TO YOUR OWN TROOP's PACKING GUIDE] Troop First Aid Kit Trailer Needed? New Gear Needed? Activity Plan TBD. Food For Thought: Group instruction in the AM Patrol Time in the PM Saturday Campfire Program Safety Plan / Medical Form Requirement Medical Form A/B Required Insurance Forms Needed For Location / Requirements Met? Standard Safety Plan + YPT + Buddy System Safety Afloat Needed? Who is responsible? Safe Swim Defence Needed? Swimming Tests Required? Who is responsible? Other special considerations for safety? Budget Food Fees: Camping Fees: Activity Fees: ~Total Per Person: Payment Due: [Before Event / On Payment Schedule / After Event] By Scout Account Note: All budget info is a good faith estimate. Actual fees will be applied to Scout Accounts after event.

Example of what our weekly newsletter looks like leading up to an outing. This is last year ahead of a canoe trip. I put the template together and have it on Google Drive. During PLC, the SPL and Scribe make a copy of the template and fill it out in Google Docs in real time. After the Webmaster can literally copy/paste this into our calendar. It makes the PLC go quickly, gives structure but the Scouts still do all the "grunt work" and it ensures we capture all the detail for both Scouts/Parents but for us as leaders to ensure we've checked all the planning boxes. Here is the event logistics template as prepared. The PLC takes first swing, then the Adult Coordinator, SM and Scout In Charge manage updates. First link in equipment list is a link to our website article on what to bring camping, lifted almost verbatim from handbook but with some regional specifics important for our program.

We do annual planning the weekend or two after school ends for the summer/following year. We send this tentative plan to all families as soon as the PLC confirms it and Committee Chair reviews it (they are often at planning conference) This sets the dates and tentative theme for all our outings. We leave the meeting specifics for later monthly PLCs. PLC meets first Thursday of the month and sets detailed meeting plans for any meeting that will happen before the next scheduled PLC. After the PLC, the webmaster updates our troop website calendar with detailed meeting plans. We use this template provided by Scouts BSA: https://troopleader.scouting.org/troop-meetings/ We use Troop Web Host for our troop site. The site allows a weekly newsletter to be scheduled. It goes every Sunday at noon. TWH also supports adding the calendar to your phone's google/outlook/whatever calendar. Between the newsletter, website calendar, and phone calendars - people are usually pretty well informed about our plans. For outings, the SM or ASM supports the PLC in completing these for each outing: https://troopleader.scouting.org/main-event-project-planning/ Our hopeful approach to this is I assign an ASM as outing coordinator and we select a Scout In Charge, usually the SPL if they will attend. Another Senior Scout or ASPL if not. Those two have executive approval to set the plan in accordance with the PLC's approved high level plan. For example: If we are canoing and it turns out our outfitter does not have enough Canoes those two can unilaterally decide to supplement with Kayaks. Or if our original campsite is unavailable, they can find a Plan B without being hindered by plan-by-committee. Those plans are posted/kept on our website calendar too and go out in the weekly newsletter. As they change, they are updated directly on the website so they are just organically included every week. For "other" stuff I just send a periodic update as needed.

hear, hear!

$140 per youth / $100 per adult in our council this year. Not a rumor. Also moving to an annual renewal vs. everyone renewing at one time. I presume to avoid the "crush" that comes from every unit in council submitting paperwork at one time. Also, I have come to 100% rely on the roster at my.scouting.org - I think this will be the norm. Just as you use it to manage training expiration (which have all been different for a long time) you will now use it to manage membership expiration.

We recently did a Saturday badge session. We had 25 Scouts attend. The conversations were real, compelling, and friendly. I think a key was setting ground rules that including this is serious, no teasing, and what gets discussed in the room stays in the room. Everyone got the badge and said they had fun and learned something. I think it all comes down to how it's presented. I will admit when the badge was released I was pretty cynical about it, but having seen it delivered and the way the Scouts responded to it - I'm quite in favor of it. I do share the wish we could compress some of the "school" type badges a bit and expand the focus on outdoorsy or hands-on badges, but I definitely have evolved my opinion on this badge.

Same as above. We stockpile some patches. SM gives them to SPL to give out at conclusion of elections or at the end of the meeting if the SPL makes any POR appointments mid-cycle (QM, scribe, etc.) SPL/ASPLs are expected to hound the PORs to get patched up. I've thought for a while that a "uniform maintenance night" would be a good meeting theme now and again. Might suggest that at our annual planning. Scouts really ought to be able to sew on any patch with a merrow border.

Sounds fun to me... I guess it depends on how it's done. I can also make a hike regimented if I really try.

Start attending roundtable. Meet the district committee. In my experience - they will definitely have a way to use your energy. It could be commissioner life. It could be helping to plan a district event. I kind of "get" that local units are going to be a harder sell for a "stranger" off the street without a Scout of their own as at least an initial foot in the door. But show up to district roundtable a couple times and you'll find yourself well employed soon. You can bring value over a wider area in that kind of role (many units benefit from your energy vs. one) and you'll still have plenty of opportunities to get outdoors. Another path could be OA if you're a member from your youth, a lot of lodges are thirsty for more adult participation and support. It's another multi unit support option. Thanks for your passion!

These fees are out of control. There's no transparency or justification. They bring no value to units or Scouts/Scouters. In an age where Scouts BSA is purportedly emphasizing DEI these fees put Scouting out of reach for many. It boils my blood.

This all comes down to your local units and their established policies. Issue with Scouting is it is generational. Leaders and scouts come, engage for a time, and move on. If a policy was not written down and passed on, it's often lost. My advice is don't be afraid to rethink anything that's not specifically documented. Even so, some of my least favorite words to hear are "That's what we've always done." So? Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it right for right now. I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel for the sake of it, but I do think the generational rollover of Scouting leadership provides an organic opportunity to re-evaluate stuff like this. My predecessor used to ask two questions when change was suggested: "Does it make sense?" "What problem does it solve?" If it made sense and solved a problem, it was a good thing to look into. If not - don't fix what's not broken is usually the best thing.

When you load an event in TWH, you can set a cutoff date for signup. We normally make it the last meeting before the outing, mainly so the grubmaster(s) know who to shop for. Nice thing is RSVPs are visible to everyone on the website. I would say 95% of Scouts regularly use this. Grubmaster SOP includes a final check of registrations for the Patrol right before the shop to account for late adds/drops. When someone does not sign up and still intends to come, the Scouts seem to know. I am 100% fine with last minute adds, I always prefer a Scout to come out with us than not over a "deadline". As long as it can be safely accommodated (enough food, if we had to reserve canoes, etc.) So far, and my experience is shorter than many, it's never been an issue to make it work for late adds. Our policy on last minute drops is you are responsible for your share of actual costs. If we paid the venue for your camping, if the grubmaster bought food for you, if we rented you a canoe and you no-show ... you're responsible for those fees. We have a decent size troop and a decent bench of registered adult leaders. I still find from time to time I'm scraping by to get enough adult attendance at outings even with tons of advanced notice. Mostly due to schedules. Next year I worry it'll get worse with the new "fee required position" requirement but I'm working to get ahead on that.

All, looking ahead to next year we're beginning the uh... plan ... for the annual plan. I found this Wikipedia article that lists all summer camps... found it useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_council_camps_(Boy_Scouts_of_America) BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF THIS POST I would like feedback, particularly (selfishly) for FL/GA/NC/SC/AL camps you definitely recommend and why. But I thought this could be a refresh of generally useful feedback on camp destinations to put on our collective bucket list for next year or beyond. So by all means, recommend any camp but as I mentioned... being selfish I am definitely looking for GA, NC, SC, AL based camp suggestions. Our troop has attended camps at the following and feedback has been we're return to any of these. Favorites would probably be Camp Shands for their awesome Tree House campsite (need to commit to filling 32 bunks to get entire site or Be Prepared to share) and Raven Knob which really was scenic and challenged us Flat Landers with terrain in a way we don't normally get confronted. Bert Adams is also often touted, although was attended before my tenure so I can't personally comment on it. We are FL based and I feel the troop developing some wanderlust so we're looking in 2024 at doing one camp in council and a second camp out of state, hence my particular interest in hearing about GA, NC, SC, AL camps as most are driveable for us under the GTSS rules in a day. Beyond that we're looking at flying or breaking the drive up into multiple days which complicates logistics - but does not rule out any given destination. Camp Shands (FL) Camp La No Che (FL) Rainy Mountain (GA) Raven Knob (NC) Daniel Boone (NC) Bert Adams (GA)

It's a good tool to frame up your thoughts and prep for the conversation but if advising a Scout on this I'd hold firm that This section is specifically noted as not required. Be prepared to talk about your experience. I think the format of the section is great, worth using honestly. But if you did not or decided not to, you cannot be required because... Noone can add new requirements for Rank, including requiring you to provide a specifically unrequired part of this document and... Though one reason for a board of review is to help ensure the Scout did what was supposed to have been done to meet the requirements, it shall become neither a retest or “examination,” nor a challenge of the Scout’s knowledge. Therefore, being knowledgeable and conversant about what you did for the project and the planning ought to be sufficient. In our council, the specificity with which they demand a candidate complete the application IMO borders on violating the "thou shalt not add requirements", for example in the merit badge section they will reject an application if the merit badges are not listed in the order earned by date. As far as I can tell, this is not a requirement of the application or process and seems to be something done to make the review faster. It's also to the point that non-electronic versions of the application (handwritten) are no longer practical - yet the GTA specifically says that's okay.

we use troop web host. I post the outings in the calendar, scouts can sign up. Usually after the event, the CC tallies up the receipts and uses the scout accounts feature of TWH to assess actual cost to the Scouts. This varies a bit. Pretty much everyone pays a split of the campsite fee if any, but then the food is done by patrol. That way if Patrol A spends $15 per person and Patrol B spends $9 per person for food, the actual costs are passed along. I like TWH. In addition to just being able to post it, there are quick buttons for sending reminders to people who HAVE signed up and those who have NOT RSVPed (either yes/no) so you can nag just the people you want to and not the entire troop. If someone says "Not going" they no longer get chatter about that outing via email. I like it a lot. We also use it to send a final confirmation of pickup time for Sunday. There's a feature to route an SMS by email for most major carriers which is nice.

have only used it for one unit, but Troop Web Host seems to have features in it for multi unit management. Worth a look.

Better People.

This is likely. Fair is fair though, if by this rule the # of paid leaders increases notably - the fees should decrease similarly. They won't.

This could have been done by restricting camping to only "registered leaders". The decision to make it "fee required" seems intentional and if so, purely financially motivated IMO. A MB Counselor, in my council at least, is required to take YPT and submit to a background check - but pays no fee. Previously, these persons could attend outings and support my unit as one of the 2-up. NOW, they would have to fork over almost $100 (fees for registered adults in my area are close to $100 annually now) AND be welcomed onto the committee or as an ASM (higher bar in my unit than MB counselor) so in addition to the financial barrier, there's a qualification and level of commitment barrier added too.

...because the kinds of parents that insist on observing are just this reasonable and level headed Unfortunately I don't view this situation as ad absurdum. It's an eventuality. I guess I'll cross that bridge as it comes, but Scouts BSA certainly do seem to spend plenty of time devising new and interesting ways to complicate our unit structures and YPT compliance. This fee-required addition is one I can't get behind at all. Accomplishes nothing net-new in terms of YPT, the only net difference I see is money in Scouts BSA's pocket. Only hurts the units and the Scouts in my book.